410 cars got away for cock pit adjustments Hyper is the only one that has 10-12. Most cars have shocks ,wing,and a weight adjuster. For me to add them to a SB3,RTS or PMP would mean change the whole design of the car.If you
don't limit them were will it stop.If you don't think they make a really big deference ask Mike D Heath Mike R Now with everyone on the same tire those changes when driving will really show up.I might as well order my new Hyper, might be 15 adjustments for 2010

I agree with you Gary.

Keep adj. shocks, just no incar adjusting. Very easy to tech.

would it not be easier and cheaper to leave the chassis adjustments alone and limit adjustable shocks?

Less in car adjustments sounds like an easy way to minimize the cost of racing.

Gary i have to respectfully disagree with you on this one. 410's have the horsepower to compensate for a mis step in setup or changing track conditions. im not against limiting cock pit adjustments. i don't agree with the reasoning. like i said in another post not everyone is going to be able to afford to race these cars. These adjustments are for fine tuning. they will not compensate for a "missed setup". As far as i am concerned the wing is the single biggest adjustment that can be made on the car. i wish a track would take on a "stock class" of 600.With only a wing adjustment. I think everyone would be surprised how little interest there is in such a class. The cream is always going to rise to the top regardless of the limitations that are placed on it.... As always this is just my opinion

There is always one really easy way to limit money spent on these things,

DON'T BUY THEM!

Why is it the mentality that if they allow them, you must have them? We only have one adjustable shock on the car, COULD have three more. But we don't need them. Don't let the rules dictate how you spend your money. Spend the money on what you need, not what the guy in the next trailer has...

who said racing was supposed to be cheap

If I had money I would be racing 410. Instead I dont have a lot of money so this form of racing is cheaper. Thats why I am racing in this class. So I guess I say it should be cheap.

Look at the car counts. Maybe this could be somewhere we could improve to help the guy who can barely afford his racing needs now have a little more of a chance.

well I would too but 410 is obscene $$$$$

And there are cheaper classes to race in. 600's are the top of the micro classes, at least around here. I, therefore, expect to spend more to be competitive than in a 250 or 125 micro. Am I wrong? And I don't hear Todd Zinn complaining about the costs in 410's, he just races when he can afford to. Albeit 2-3 times a year.

And Jes, you win and do plenty well with your racing program. i don't understand what you have an issue with? Yeah, saving money is nice, but if you don't think you need to buy that new tire (for example), don't. Seems simple to me...

I don't see anywhere in that post about money I'm always about the little guy if you don't have the little guy do you think people will come to see the same guy win every week some who knows could put on here all the classes that don't have cock pit adjustments and you be surprise start with nascar

This is precisely why i don't like the argument about the adjustments. Be clear, do you not want them because of money, or competition? If it's a money thing, don't spend the money where you don't need to. if its about the competition, don't hide it behind the money issue.

Yes, I can save a buttload of money by not buying adjustable shocks, weight jacker and the like. I don't need a rule telling me not to buy them though. i just make the CHOICE to not buy them.

If you want them outlawed to even the playing field, thats a different story. You can be good with them, and without them. Its an edge if its done properly. But in no way is it a necessity...

you know i think that maybe this area is ready for two classes of 600 cars? I think some of the problem is we are trying to keep everyone happy in one class of 600. I think the sidewinders tried to address the perceived notion that 600 costs are getting out of hand. I think to a certain extent they have been successful in their endeavor. the question i have for folks that are beating the eliminate adjustment and reducing cost drum is why not go to the sidewinders? I'm not trying to start anything i'm just curious that's all. if there is a class with a "stock" motor rule that has limited adjustments allowed and a tire rule why not go to that class? why try to change a class that i would suggest that the majority of the racers are ok with? really i want to hear the reasons why

Wayne I learned my lesson from voicing any kind of opinion between the two classes, so if you want my opinion come see me saturday.

But I'm starting to agree with the two class thing. Only problem is you can see the lack of cars there is right now, try splitting them in half and there would be 12 cars per class. One day when the east coast racing catches the midwest and west coast with only 4 strokes I think there will be enough cars to do that.

that's fine i'll sell my 600's and stay home and you can race yourself

i'll come visit you buddy and we can watch wind tunnel or something;)

The Sidewinders have been doing well this year and we are very excited about the 2010 season.

Our tire rule is going to change a bit.... It will be a harder compound and you will be able to run any manufacturers tire marked with the proper compound number from the factory. It must also durometer to spec. No more one brand with a class specific tire mark. We wanted to simplify things for the racers.

We will still have stock engine rules as always.

Only two in car adjustables.

We have already negotiated a host of races that will make the Sidewinders more of a touring series.

Our payout structure is also going to be more average racer friendly. Paying out a little less up front and more back through.

We also have some things we are working on implementing to streamline tech at the end of the night.

If you have ever complained about the teching not being done and the chances of cheating and over spending everyone else...... than the Sidewinders are a class for you! We tech most every night.....

To also curb the idea of cheating we do have a claimer rule. If you think someone is cheating you can buy their engine.

that's fine i'll sell my 600's and stay home and you can race yourself

Come on Gary, I hope you're not tryin to get us to believe you're the 'little guy'. Your program is probably one of the largest budget, or at least looks that way. Not to mention you have had a TON of success this year. Don't take any of this as more than a huge compliment, because thats what it was.


Wayne I learned my lesson from voicing any kind of opinion between the two classes, so if you want my opinion come see me saturday.


I call BS on that statement. Since when have you ever censored what you say!?!. Hell, we all come to expect to hear how it really is from you. Your vic lane interviews are the only ones I make a point to listen to, always entertaining...

A quick story to share on any tire rule...

At the Spring Nationals in May, I was walking past Mark Stricklers pit when he said, " hey I have a tire I want you to see". Mark then proceeded to roll out a nearly bald SD44 Sidewinder Spec tire that he ran the night before.

( For those that remember, the track was a little tough on tires)

I cautiously asked Mark if it was new the previous night, dreading his reply....... he replied " Hell no.... that was it's 20th feature... I am showing you the tire,because I am retiring it to the garage wall."

For the record.... Mark finished 3rd in that "20th" feature !!

Now for a difference... no spec tire 600cc racing..

I asked Chad Hough in 2008 how much he spent on tires the year before.. his answer was over $4k...

When I talked to Ryan Wilson about the same subject.. If I remember correctly, his answer was over $9k..



And as far as I have seen so far.. spec tires or not.. the cream still rises to the top.... but with spec tires everyone saves money !

Spec tires would save everyone the most money of any change in the rules. We have spent 5K on tires this year.

Keith Sr.

a track tire is one of the things that is up for a vote i believe.If everyone really wants to have a track tire or spec tire make sure you tell your rep and the track owners. pass a petition around the pits so to make sure your rep is representing your opinion not just their own. if you want to effect change in this class that's how it's going to happen.

a "spec/track tire " is a way to save money but my experience is i then seem to have to carry alot more lr tires due to the fact getting the proper stagger i have hoosier and racers in spec form and they all seem tougher to work with as far as get the proper stagger # so we save money on rr but just spend it on lr seems like not much of a savings there are probably other areas that coud be looked at. and no i'm not in favor of taking cockpit adjustables away.

one shock adj. wing adj.and run nmma rr.my two cents

We should run a spec RR tire, 2 adjustments per car, your choice. Leave the engine rules the same except clean up some of the grey areas. Allow the 636 kawi die out on there own. We just got to start doing more teching at tracks, checking rev boxes, heads, etc.. We need someone who is netural for tech not one of the engine builders doing the tech.. I like the idea of a stock class but i am afraid you will not have many cars in each class.
Doug Snyder 69s

Earlier when they were taking a pole on the RR tire issue I believe the majority voted against the tire rule. I do not know if that was taken into consideration.

I don't understand why you guys wouldn't want the spec tire rule. if you're saving people well over 1000 dollars... then there you go!

have a rule for the LR and RR. let the universal rules dictate for each track but make it a rule to force the tracks into doing it.

so if your track isn't always hard... the spec can be a 15/20 on the back tires... if the track is always hard then you can adjust. just take control each track through the universal rules program or make one rule for all the tracks.

I don't see why it receives negative reactions really... if you're all running and burning 12s then you can all run and gradually burn your 20s.

i would like to see this pole that you are talking about.. The last pole that was done on spec tire rule it was pretty even to be honest with a more voting for a spec rule then not.....

I don't understand why you guys wouldn't want the spec tire rule. if you're saving people well over 1000 dollars... then there you go!

have a rule for the LR and RR. let the universal rules dictate for each track but make it a rule to force the tracks into doing it.

so if your track isn't always hard... the spec can be a 15/20 on the back tires... if the track is always hard then you can adjust. just take control each track through the universal rules program or make one rule for all the tracks.

I don't see why it receives negative reactions really... if you're all running and burning 12s then you can all run and gradually burn your 20s.


If we are going to have a "spec" tire rule it has to be one compound for every track. If you open up the rule to say, "at this track you need this compound, and this track you need this compound," then you have gained nothing. Guys will still need to stock all the different compounds to run at different tracks. Thus, completely defeating the purpose of a spec tire rule.






i would like to see this pole that you are talking about.. The last pole that was done on spec tire rule it was pretty even to be honest with a more voting for a spec rule then not.....


I think the pole he might be referring to is the pole individuals did at the end of last year. I remember someone came around at Linda's and asked every driver if they were in favor of a spec tire rule or not. However, the way I understand it, the proposal was never brought up at the U6SA meeting for a vote.

I am in favor of limiting cockpit adjustments as well. Make the driver/crew cheifs read the track and get the set-up correct for the type of track rather then going out and changing the entire set-up with cockpit adjustables once on the track.

i agree with zach about the tire rule cause we run different tracks and that means i would have to buy different tires like i do now!

I still just don't see where adjustable shocks cost that much more.
Now we buy 4 dual adjustable shocks instead of 12 non adjustable shocks.

Bud nobody is saying that you cant have adjustable shocks, you just can't dial them within the car.
Like the sidewinder, I can have 4 adjustable shocks, panhard bar, and wing adjustables within my car but I can only have two of my choice that I can control.

And last thing about this needing to buy 12 different shocks. I don't have a clue where people really get off saying this. Ask anyone with a Hyper their front shocks are 2/.5 on both. I never see anyone within the pits changing them. I believe Stallard recommends the same thing. PMP is like a 2 lf and 2/1 rf and never see anyone changing them.

Here is a good example, Probe sells no adjustable shocks, even if the guy purchasing the car wants one it rolls out the door with four gold pro shocks on it. There has been 41 recorded wins on Trailways website and who knows how many at other tracks with not one adjustable shock on the car. I know the valving that is on my car is the exact same thing on everyother Probe car.

Best part about this Bud, I currently own 3 adjustable shocks and a bar jacker and still would like to see them do away with adjustables. Last race at Trailways shows you what adjusting shocks can do.

I still just don't see where adjustable shocks cost that much more.
Now we buy 4 dual adjustable shocks instead of 12 non adjustable shocks.


I don't understand how you can say adjustable shocks don't cost that much more.

~ 1 double adjustable monotube ARS shock from hyper = $675 (now you have only put a shock on one corner of your car) (4 shocks = $2700)

~ 1 non-adjustable monotube ARS shock from hyper = $275 (2 shocks = $550) (now you have put shocks on two corners of your car for less than the price of one double adjustable) (4 shocks = $1100)

~ 1 non-adjustable twin tube ARS shock from hyper = $169 (4 shocks = $676) (now you have put shocks on ALL FOUR corners of your car for $1 more than the price of one double adjustable) (although this is way overkill - 12 shocks = $2028 - over $600 cheaper)

The numbers don't lie.

Why would you be buying 12 non adjustable shocks?

You have one person (Gary) wanting adjustables gone for money. Another (Jes) wanting them gone or limited for the competition. Every argument, pretty much, has been towards controlling costs. Allowing, but limiting adjustables will not save any money. It is again then on the owner/driver to decide if they need them. IE, don't spend the money where it's not needed.

The competition argument is somewhat valid. But I don't see Mike Dicely or Terry Schaffer at Trailways every weekend tweeking setups on their customers chassis' every week either. You Probe guys at TW have a very nice advantage with Barry being there to help every weekend. And also, when you chassis guy pretty much focuses all his efforts towards 1 or 2 tracks, you can get it dialed in rather well. Then you wouldn't need adjustables when you know what you need to run beforehand...

We definitely do not run a Hyper basic setup. We have worked long and hard over the last couple years to dial in the car. Right now, if we only raced TW, we could get rid of most of our adjustables. But if you travel, and never have enough time to dial a track in, adjustables, in the right hands, help keep you competitive. The adjustables, in my opinion, help keep the playing field level.

Mine is towards both, cost and level playing field. Yesterday I typed something long and then it timed out so I said hell with it i'm not retyping it.

Sorry HyperMotive Racing I dont know how you guys do that phrasing thing so try the best to follow me on this.
"It is again then on the owner/driver to decide if they need them. IE, don't spend the money where it's not needed."

I decided boring my 2008 yamaha R6 2 mil over is the best bang for my dollar. Thats where it is needed for me. But I can't due to rules. So how can one justify spending 2,500 for shocks that I dont want or need or spending 1,300 on a carbon fiber body kit that I dont want or need but truely where I want to spend my money and know it will help, I can't. So why can the guy spend 2,500 on adjustables because thats what makes him faster?


"We definitely do not run a Hyper basic setup. We have worked long and hard over the last couple years to dial in the car. Right now, if we only raced TW, we could get rid of most of our adjustables. And also, when you chassis guy pretty much focuses all his efforts towards 1 or 2 tracks, you can get it dialed in rather well. Then you wouldn't need adjustables when you know what you need to run beforehand..."

Where else do you race? And if nobody has adjustables and visits a track for the first time are they on the same field as you?
This is where the Rickey Warners and Donny Shatz's win. The Steve Kinser and Genkins win.

"But if you travel, and never have enough time to dial a track in, adjustables, in the right hands, help keep you competitive. The adjustables, in my opinion, help keep the playing field level."

Hasn't it been stated that cream always rises to the top?

"The competition argument is somewhat valid. But I don't see Mike Dicely or Terry Schaffer at Trailways every weekend tweeking setups on their customers chassis' every week either. You Probe guys at TW have a very nice advantage with Barry being there to help every weekend."

That is one of several reason I bought a Probe. I know I wanted to race at Trailways, Lindas and Pathvalley. I know he goes to two of the three.

Terry runs at Lindas. Predator runs at TW.

Don't take it personal what I reply, i'm stating the way I see it, nothing personal.

Lets not forget, with adjustables you can dial yourself out just as quickly as you can dial yourself in.

I dialed myself out quite a few times

I would have to agree. Sometimes the adjustables screw you up more then help. When we went to just two in the Sidewinders I wasn't sure about it but now I really like it. Just a bit if you need it but you gotta be real close before you get on the track.

Jes,

If you can't spend money where you want to spend money, then put the money in your pocket or into your family. Not really a valid argument. I'd like to spend money on a turbo for the micro, but I can't because of the rules. So, i'll go buy me some ice cream.

And on the cream rising to the top. Not my words and really a harsh generalization comparing that to a level playing field.

And we've raced at Lanco, Path, Lindas and Ship. Prolly alot more next year. And the adjustables have helped us everywhere we've gone.

Why is no one talking about eliminating the ONE adjustable that pretty much all racers have? Yeah, the wing.

Trying to not sound like a broken record, but I really don't think you will get away with eliminating adjustable parts, just not realistic in this class as it is. We might as well all just race match box cars. Limiting the number is realistic. We could have used only 2 all year, and it would not have changed how our season ended up.

And like you, I'm just calling it how I see it...

So, i'll go buy me some ice cream.




MMMM.....ice cream...... <drool> :p I have an adjustable belt. :D

The turbo thing is unrealistic. One they were never legal ever since the introduction of 600 micros, 2 mil over motors were until 2006 motors. Second when the 600 started it was started with only one adjustable, the wing. So being that it already has happened it is realistic.

You are most likely correct that it will never change but who would have ever thought we would go to straight 600’s or even talk about spec tires or mandatory bladders. No adjustable doesn’t seem all that unrealistic to me.

Eliminating them in the WoO and Pennsylvania circuit wasn’t unrealistic.
Now the talk is possibly going to Time Trials in Central PA. One person gets an idea and enough stick by him/her and things can happen.

Now and early on when the sidewinders first started some guys were in favor of eliminating all adjusters, leaving nothing to be turned not even the wing. So possibly if enough people within the class find reason it could happen. This is the side I stand on and usually don’t bring it up until someone else does because to me there is to much misinformation. Needing over a dozen shocks if they can't use in car adjusters. You still can put them on and have 30 shocks in one just can't adjust them from inside your car.

Maybe after a season with no adjusters the racing may suck and I could be all wrong but I remember what it was like without them. Passing Lucas Wolfe around the top of turn 1 at Trailways on a day race.

We use to race slot cars, that was a lot of fun but nobody could beat Mike Boyer.

Wheelzup I'm blaming you for not fitting in my racing suit anymore. Pushing all this ice cream on me isnt a good thing..........or is it :D

Can you adjust your belt while walking or do you have to wait for the elevator?

you know guys when i raced 270's back in the day the fast guys had Eddie Sanders strokers. i didn't have $3200.00 so i ran an 88rm250 which at the time was the next best thing. i was competitive but wasn't going to win. when i finally could buy a Sanders motor guess what? i still didn't win! and i was just a little more competitive then i was in the 88 RM250. when i started racing 600's when 10 of us would show up at lindas i was running a ninja motor when everyone else was running ron walters hondas. i was competitive in it but again wasn't gonna win in it. when i got a walters honda i was a little better but didn't set the word on fire. The bottom line is ( besides not being that good) that i didn't take the time to learn about my car, shocks, tires, bars (coils then). i could have put anything on my car. and it didn't matter because i didn't take the time to master the setup of the car. i didn't need to win i just wanted to be competitive and i was. the backbone of this class is now as it was then the guys like me that came to the track with 3,4,5 yr or older equipment. i updated my equipment as i could afford to and i would go to the flea market and buy the used stuff the guys with money were selling for a greatly reduced rate because they could take the hit. i eventually got what the other guys had it just took a little longer. i felt good about myself when i would pick up a heat race win here and there.Sure i wanted to have the same stuff Mike and Terry and Gobrecht had but i didn't have the means to have that type of equipment so i did with what i had. There was never any discussion or up roar about the costs of the 270 motors. just think 10-12 years ago a Sanders Stroker with pipe and carb i believe was $3,200.00 hell it's $4,700.00 now for a DBY not too far off the 600 cost. If anything i think the in car adjustments speed the learning curve for alot of guys. i know if i would have been able to feel what it was like when i turned this and a lap later felt what is was like to turn that i would have had a much better understanding more quickly. if this argument is truly a concern over rising costs to remain competitve then we really need to look at two classes of 600's and if some tracks lose a 600 class so be it. It's about the strength of the class. But if this argument is about the haves and the have nots then i don't think there is room for this discussion in racing. By the way we didn't have adj shocks, pan hards, electric wing sliders and alot of the same guys that are winning today were winning then...... as always just my opinion

Wheelzup I'm blaming you for not fitting in my racing suit anymore. Pushing all this ice cream on me isnt a good thing..........or is it :D

Can you adjust your belt while walking or do you have to wait for the elevator?

I can do it on the fly....Its "cock pit" adjustable ;)

Plus it has a deep belly wing over it...no one would ever see whats goin on down there. Not even me. :(

I can do it on the fly....Its "cock pit" adjustable

Plus it has a deep belly wing over it...no one would ever see whats goin on down there. Not even me.



thats funny

If someone came out with and we can,a trick car like Gary Balough did at Syracuse we would all be crying. We have all but no rules on this,and maybe we could look down the road a little bit.WE spend how many $$ on the car? $1300-$1600 on the engine and $800-$2200 at the engine builder. That is really cheap cheap cheap,Quarter Midgets spend more.So if it's really about saving money or keeping things close you do the math.It's not about the money in this class,this is affordable but if you don't think ahead a little it might not be.

Wayne.... Well said! When someone is good they are good and well if you suck with ok equipment your still gonna suck with the newest greatest thing.

I do believe that at times us racers need to be saved from our selves. It's rare that you hear a racer say.

"Wow I really stunk out there! He must of beat me because he is better. I better work on my driving and set-up a bit more so I can run better next time!"

This is what I hear most times.....

"He was cheating. He had illegal fuel. A big engine. More money in his car. And with all of that he was practically running me over the whole race!"

So I'm gonna quit :mad:


But the best one I have ever heard was.....

"I know he's cheating because I put on my big motor and he still beat me!"

Huh? am I missing something here? :rolleyes:

i agree with zach about the tire rule cause we run different tracks and that means i would have to buy different tires like i do now!

but you wouldn't be ruining them every two races. if there was one spec tire it'd get worn down in x races. if you raced two tracks you'd limit the wear of each tire allowed for that track. you still wouldn't be burning them off at the same rate but you'd limit wear on each tire depending where you ran.

i usually just read these things now but i just have a comment.. im sure 600's are different but i any track i have raced at this year didnt really burn off any tires on may car and i have only had on harded than a 12 3 times this year.. (trailways spring nationals, lanco laborday, and once at lindas when the track looked black and i put on a 20 but didnt touch it at all should of kept the 12 on).. all the tracks have been pretty good this year i have gone to many of them, i have been getting 3 weeks out of a set which is 6 races i run 2 nights a week. but besides that what i really came on to say.. is yeah the incar adjustments do definetly make a difference but if you are without them even though your odds of winning are a tad bit lowered, its not impossible. also when the odds are against you, it tends to turn you into a better driver. if you dont have the adjustments to do the work that means its up to you and then you have to learn how to really drive a car and turns you into a better driver. someone without the adjustments makes you work a little harder for it and when you can accomplish consistant up front finishes just imagine how you will drive with them. correct me if im wrong but thats my belief. everyone is always looking for that edge.. well maybe that edge can be you (the driver) and not so much the car. i dont have a problem with the ppl who have adjustments. i have some but not what i could have, and it does not bother me to race with the ones who have it all. sometimes im good and sometimes im not its a part of racing to me.

I might as well order my new Hyper.

Gary, I have your new car ready. I added a couple extra adjusters as you requested.

For the record, I only have 4 adjuster knobs and one wing switch.

I am definitely for a tire rule, would save most people a ton of money.

Mike,I for one am not for a tire rule but if a tire rule is enforced why can't you have a 20 compound which would be plenty hard.
Tracks like Trail-Ways is plenty wet when you get there so putting that hard a right rear on would not be good racing for the racers or fans.

Brad weber

First off, I don't wanna see a tire rule at all.

But, IF it is done, it needs to be the same tire for all, period. And don't be surprised if the cost goes up because the tire companies will now be selling less tires...

Racing is about tires, tires, and tires. Even in the Sidewinders, we bought a decent amount of new rubber this year. Yeah, you hear the stories of 20 race old tires, blah blah blah. But we all know, there is nothing like fresh rubber. You can only re-dress an old tire so many times before the oils are gone. I think the way it is now is just fine. You have teams buying tires everyweek. That won't change with a tire rule. You also have lower $$$ teams buying used tires, and are perfectly happy running them.

Fact of the matter is, un-hooking cars to create tire longevity many times creates boring, strung-out green flag races. To me, thats no fun. And if it weren't for the fun times (they happen occasionally), we wouldn't be doing this. Keep capitalism alive and let us run what we want...

I personally thought speedweek was some of the best racing all year. And guess what... spec tire rule!

Also, long green flag racing usually means the front runners will be in heavy lapped traffic. This usually makes the race more exciting for the fans, as they get to see the front runners having to pick and choose their lines to work through the lapped traffic but still remain fast enough to hold the lead. (If anyone was at Lanco for their last race - 9/19/09 - you know what I am talking about. One of the most exciting races I have ever seen. Watching the front runners work through the lapped traffic was awesome!)

Just my opinion.

You also had all of the best competition/drivers in the same race at the same track. That is going to give you the best racing. I don't think the tire would change that...

I just don't beleive this formula works the same for weekly racing...

Hey Mike same old stuff your way or the high way I see now why vendors and promoters say any thing it don't matter

The only rule change we truly need is......cupholders! Store your Yoo-Hoo safely whilst you drive....plus in case you get taken out you can immediately ->

I think that a tire rule is something that is really track specific, and that is why it keeps failing, and rightfully so. SOme tracks it makes less sense, some tracks you need it, otherwise youll trash lots of tires. Day shows= you def need it.

Also, why is everyone thinking so strictly? In other words, that a a Spec tire must be the only one.
Why not suggest (well i guess i am now) limiting it to 2 compunds Ex. RD15 or ASCS NMMA (and the American Racer equivalents)
I race all over and have NOT used a lot of tires this year, i get my grinder and groover and clean them up and use them again and again.

I think picking the right tires is part of the challenge. Not just running the same ole thing. i was at lancos shoot out, and it was a day race and needed to buy 1 tire all weekend, a spec for the feature, and the only reason i bought it is that i wanted a NEW one with the right stagger, since my other one was old and the other one was too big

that supports Hypermotives thought that we will buy the new stuff any way, and we will have several for stagger choice...

i think i ran 2 rr tires all year at bridgeport (rd 12's), if that.
I guess the guys that throw new rubber at the car all the time, or run abraisive tracks will chew up a lot of rubber.

Just an opinion, good luck to everyone this w/end racing. :-)
Rick

Oh, and the adjustable shocks (i am referring to shocks only not roll bars and jacrs and other adjusters) save money, since i dont have 2 or 3 sets of front shocks, and dont have 2 rr shocks and 2or 3 lr shocks like in the old days for the different tracks, and different shows. not to mention i can actually repair these or get them repaired rather than just throwing them out when something goes wrong with them.

JMO :-)

[QUOTE=HyperMotive Racing;38194]



Racing is about tires, tires, and tires. Even in the Sidewinders, we bought a decent amount of new rubber this year. Yeah, you hear the stories of 20 race old tires, blah blah blah. But we all know, there is nothing like fresh rubber. You can only re-dress an old tire so many times before the oils are gone. I think the way it is now is just fine. You have teams buying tires everyweek. That won't change with a tire rule. You also have lower $$$ teams buying used tires, and are perfectly happy running them.

QUOTE]

Hyper.... do you still have your "used tires".. I know a few teams that will buy your "old" tires....

How many old Sidewinder tires do you guys have? Let me know.... bring them with you to TW on Saturday and I'll buy them..... Thanks

I'll have like 6 i'll be bringing with. To me most are shot but to others they may be all but new.

$20.00 a tire.

Damn, its like a flea market! You want soft rubber too, or just sidewinder rubber?

Just the SW rubber.... bring them with you. I'll take em :)

MMMM.....ice cream...... <drool> :p I have an adjustable belt. :D
you got me wantin some ice cream but,is there a spec cone,waffle or sugar cone? or does it have to come in a cup, or bowl?can the cone be adjustable, like a push-up? im soooo confused!

Just the SW rubber.... bring them with you. I'll take em :)

Most are sittin outside with rain water in em. If i take the time to dry em out you better take em!!!;)

you got me wantin some ice cream but,is there a spec cone,waffle or sugar cone? or does it have to come in a cup, or bowl?can the cone be adjustable, like a push-up? im soooo confused!

Must be straight cream....No hybrid cream n additives. (cookies, chips, nuts) Cone must be within Bryers spec. No enhanced cones with hard choco filled bottom. Cups must be reuseable. No styrafoam. (must be maintain "green" certification) Spoons must be fullsize. No "sporks"

I'm not sure about the ice cream, cones and bowls, but this is definitely the only legal popsicle allowed to be used.

4175

Every one of you guys have a very good point. I just read all the pages.

Just to let you know what us old country folk do in the south LOL.

We have at almost all tracks a D25 or equal RT RR tire rule. Then an all racing in the Gerogia Mini Sprint Series have a stock as it come of the bike rule for motors.

They have had over 6 winners last time i looked. From a duel injected 08 r6 to a carburated f3 motor. Closest racing I have seen and you better know you car if you want to run up front.

There is 2010 cars all the way to a few old uprights. They bang wheels with each other all night long. Good racing

Keeping cost down on tires and motors is why I can race.

Just my two cents. But you guys all had good points.

PS two RT RR tires used in 28 races. lol

In my opinion cockpit adjustments go both ways. You can get your car better or worse. The fact is car setup is done before you go out. Even with all the adjusters in the cockpit, you can't make up for missing the setup.

To tell the truth we have them all and usually don't use them much during the race. That's not to say they aren't used.

I used to own 10 or 12 shocks and changed them pretty regular on race night. Now I own 4 shocks and can change them with a turn of a knob. I don't see any difference in purchase costs, but the newer shocks have thicker and stronger shafts. I haven't had to replace one in 2 years. Before you got a good bump in the wheel and bent the shaft. I can't tell you how many $150 bent shocks i had in a bucket to go to the scrap yard.

I'm in favor of limiting the in cockpit adjustments and put the race back in the drivers hands. The question is which ones? Whole other discussion I guess?

As far as the tire rule goes. I'm assuming I'm not too different then a lot of guys who race all over. We have been to 13 different tracks this year. That means we have 2 RRs for every compound that we take with us. We also have 2 different size LRs for every compound too. I don't have to tell you it's alot of tires. That being said, I don't understand why you wouldn't be in favor. Same tire, less wheels, less wear, more room in the trailer. Any time you can race on a level playing field, it leaves up to the drivers and car setups.

I don't agree that it takes away from the racing. We found the spec tire to work quite well. Minor changes in setup is all that was needed. We raced the whole speedweek schedule and used 1 tire. We also raced every Pro Series race and the racing was first class and fast. Still racing the second tire.

The comment as far as having more left sides doesn't make sense. If I ran a d12 on the RR? how does that change how many d10s or d12s I would have mounted on the left for stagger purposes? Then add 15s,20s etc.

I'm in favor of the rule. I like Ricks suggestion of a soft and hard. Some Tracks are usually softer and and some harder. It at least gives the option, while still limiting the amount of tires you have to buy.

I been involved in racing for over 35 years. My experience tells me there is no way to stop someone from spending all of their money,(take a look at the rigs that pull in for $250 to win). The rules can only limit what they spend it on.

well said Ed

i dislike a spec tire, we are sitting here arguing about taking out cockpit adjustments and put it in the drivers and setup man hands part of setting up a car is choosing the right tire

most people who have a home track use the same tire compounds every week

and with lindas comming up how many people will be scratching their head when picking tires although this can be costly let the driver choose the right compound

with no offense to the little guy if you cant afford to run the corret/fastest tire dont run something harder or take a few weeks off when you have too

great idea gettin rid of the little guy, people have to remember with out the little guy.. there is no car count, and if you wanna go race against your self and win every week for no money then have fun....just a fact...
and remember the bigger the car count the bigger the money to win for you so called BIG GUYS. so lets jam the little guy right out of the sport, awsome theory of thinking if you ask me..

never did i claim to be a big guy or say the little guys dont belong the greatest about racing is people from diffrent areas with diffrent budgets getting along and have fun racing is not fun because of winning but because the people at the track i feel everyone should race within their budget taking a week off if nescessary for to afford most people no what tires are nescessary for their weekly track i just disagree with taking tire choice out of the set up of the car

im for limited cockpit adjustments an no spec tire maybe because i am more of a set up person then a good driver idk ots just my opinion i

This year was the first year I had more cock pit adjustables than I knew what to do with. I had always had a wing, LR shock, and panhard bar on our old Hyper, but this year after getting the newer Hyper I had wing, panhard, LR shock, double adjustable RR, and anti-roll bar (6 total cock pit adjustments).

At the beginning of the year, we were terrible. Could not figure out how to make the car work at all, and even missed qualifying for a feature at Lanco.

Our season turned around to the point where we could be fast consistently for several reason:
1. We figured out a good baseline set-up for the car (fairly different from Mike's set up) that I was comfortable with.
2. We figured out the right adjustments to make to the car during the night.
3. And most importantly, I figured out where to set all the adjustment knobs BEFORE GOING ON THE TRACK so IF I had to make any adjustments, they were very small.

I very, very, very rarely made any adjustments during a heat race, and only usually adjusted the wing, and anti-roll bar during features. While the cockpit adjustables are nice, I found knowing where to set adjustments before a race to be much more important, making the cockpit adjustments a moot point. I understand the argument, but after being on both sides, I don't think the cockpit adjusters are as big a deal as some make it seem.

And yes, Jimmy, everyone who owns a Hyper and/or Spar are cheaters, thieves, and liars. Move on.

Hey Jamie, thats just not right! Oh, wait, I mean thanks for the compliment... :D