Attached are the meeting minutes from this past weeks 2011 rules meeting. Not many big changes were made for the upcoming season.

I don't get paid for my opinion (actually I don't get paid for these notes either, so I get to give an opinion) but the most curious vote was the Rev Limit rule that would have allowed the 06-up Suzuki, Honda and Kawi motors rev limit to be raised to be more competitive. This would have opened up the market and driven down the cost of motors with more available to choose from...yet it did not pass....:confused:

9917

I agree 100%

The idea was to allow 2006 600cc and newer engines to have the same rev limit as the current yamaha R6 16,100. This would allow the other engines to be competitive. If we look on ebay those engines are cheap! If we look at the situation it would help to lower the cost of 600 racing. More engines avalible means lower cost for them accross the board. :eek:

Im not sure how many racers new of this idea......

If you are for this rule change drop a note here in this post and put a vote in the poll here also. :)

i was discussing this with Mike and he had an observation that i think was dead on. most people aren't educated enough on some of these issues. one of the things i think you will see is an effort to do just that. With the technology we have today it isn't hard to educate the members of the U6SA. At least maybe then some of the head scratching moments at the annual meeting won't occur. the 600 Pro Series is going to break ranks in respect to the engine RPM rule and a few other small variations. i still support the U6SA and the effort of the organization but i'm not waiting another year for something that should have been a no brainer. The 600 Pro Series will allow 08 and up to current year engines 16,100 RPMS this will add much needed diversity of power plants in our class. the kawasaki is still plentiful and it's going to be the dominant engine for the forseeable future. this change will allow honda and suzuki to compete much like the yamaha has been able to

Wayne I think that it is a great idea to make this rule adjustment for the PRO series. Ideally if we can save the racers money we will see more racers making it to more races all season. Im a little confused about the 08 and up though? It keeps you from using the 06-07 600cc engines GSXR and CBR 600RR.

I am still for setting the rpm limit the same for all 06 and up 600cc engines.

However, the purpose of the us6a is not about saving racers money or controlling cost of micro racing, remember. ;)

???? for you do all the Engs. have the same trans. in them as far as gear ratios go.

No they do not all have the same tranny ratio or gears.

What they are trying to do is good when you step back and look at next year or a few years down the road. The 08 yamaha has caught the 636 as far as being able to win races. Honda and Suzuki are not there yet with their technology. Yamahas are fairly expensive in every way. A motor is right around $1,700 to 2,500 and the injection is one of the most expensive to purchase new. There is a defect from factory with a lot of these motors (or as I hear) with spinning or breaking rod bearings. (no secret). My brother made it 20 races mine made it 5 races. This make for an expensive season.

What they are trying to accomplish is allowing the suzuki's and honda's to rev to 16,100 to compansate for the lack power/torque/technology to make the suzuki's and honda's a motor that is capable of winning just like the rest of the manufactors. If you have not heard honda's and susuki's are suppose to be the most durable motor on the market.

This would also open up motor wars to help bring the cost of purchasing motors down.

I will be racing a honda if they allow this rev limit to be 16,100 simply because of the reputation of the motor and longevity of the motor. I could most like race all season on one motor.

Jess... Very good explanation! This is a spot on example of a direct benifit for a racer.

I made that proposal, and hoped it would pass for all the above reasons. :-(

I also had hoped it would pass. I felt that I explained it pretty well to the regular 600 racers at Linda's and almost everyone was in favor of it. Seemed like that could only benefit the class. I guess now we have to wait until next year...

Well i can see you didn't get the point i was trying to make. If you take & up the RPM on the other engs. & they start blowing up then what do you have. Or the manufactures make there engs. better, then what. As far as the Yamaha rods it seems like it's who or what's being done to them that there blowing up not the eng. it self. :(

No the honda and susuki in the past and even now have the reputation to last longer.


DD - No its a problem from factory. The motors my brother and I had go bad had a valve job. Nothing else, no decking the head, thin head gasket, compression boast, simply off the bike had a valve job done and raced.

06 models had two different color rod bearings and it seemed if you had the gray rod bearings it seemed to last longer than the brown rod bearings. Everyone builder you talk to says the same thing about how crappy the yamaha heads look from factory.

I would rather have a honda turn at 16,100 to race over a yamaha that factory has set to 16,100 to race. It has been known over the years that honda builds a high top quality product. The silver r6 motors seem to hold up but ever since yamaha went to the 06 and newer all seem to have a problem with the bottom end.

And yes we both had the Dave Orange pan, that didn't help much.

Well i can see you didn't get the point i was trying to make. If you take & up the RPM on the other engs. & they start blowing up then what do you have. Or the manufactures make there engs. better, then what. As far as the Yamaha rods it seems like it's who or what's being done to them that there blowing up not the eng. it self. :(

The proposal for the RPM change was only for engines that were new in model year 2006 - 2010. These engines are already known to be at a dis-advantage (with the exception of the black R6). So if the manufacturers make the engines better in 2011, great, they wouldn't be able to be turned up anyway under what was proposed.

I know these engines are being used out west on the higher RPM's. However, I don't have any data on how often they are having problems that are directly related to turning the RPM's up. I do know that Honda and Suzuki are known for building one of the most reliable engines from the factory.

Attached are the meeting minutes from this past weeks 2011 rules meeting. Not many big changes were made for the upcoming season.

I don't get paid for my opinion (actually I don't get paid for these notes either, so I get to give an opinion) but the most curious vote was the Rev Limit rule that would have allowed the 06-up Suzuki, Honda and Kawi motors rev limit to be raised to be more competitive. This would have opened up the market and driven down the cost of motors with more available to choose from...yet it did not pass....:confused:

9917


a lot of stuff didnt pass..... such as adjustable ecu... and mfi(which is only allowed due to a techincality of the general rules)

Rick i thought the motion was made for 08 to 10 for the RPM raise. i am fine with 06 -10 as long as it's viable.

Lets keep it simple: Allow 07-11 600 cc to rev to 16,100 (same as black R6).

It allows all micro racers to purchases much less expensive engines for your racing. Many already know if the inherant reliability of the Honda and Suzuki 600cc powerplants.

Lets say the reliability of the other 600cc Suzuki and Honda powerplants is just the same as the MY 07-10 R6 engine....your race program has a catastrophic failure requiring a new engine. Under current rules you purchase a $2200 R6 core or a $1800 Kawi 636 core to be competetive. The Honda and Suzuki engine sell for $600-$1000 for the core! This is a no-brainer! Allow the other engines to be competetive and you can buy 2 or 3 engines for the same $!

Currently Honda and Suzuki limit rev limits to about 15,500 for a more conservative approach and to meet EPA sound requirements.

:)

i was discussing this with Mike and he had an observation that i think was dead on. most people aren't educated enough on some of these issues. one of the things i think you will see is an effort to do just that. With the technology we have today it isn't hard to educate the members of the U6SA. At least maybe then some of the head scratching moments at the annual meeting won't occur. the 600 Pro Series is going to break ranks in respect to the engine RPM rule and a few other small variations. i still support the U6SA and the effort of the organization but i'm not waiting another year for something that should have been a no brainer. The 600 Pro Series will allow 08 and up to current year engines 16,100 RPMS this will add much needed diversity of power plants in our class. the kawasaki is still plentiful and it's going to be the dominant engine for the forseeable future. this change will allow honda and suzuki to compete much like the yamaha has been able to


wayne ...... im suprised that you are allowing this since... you were the (if i recall) were the biggest voice on aiport not following the rules by allowing no bladders or letting me run my englers and that they should not get a vote.....now you are allowing a rule change? so does taht mean you don't get a vote next year? and since you and i discuseed that the claims that were made about mfi were nothing of what the reality was... are you gonna make an exception for that too?:D:D

Honda or Suzuki $1000
have it to engine builder $----
chain guard $--
oil pan $---
injection $----
harness $---
power commander or guts $---
motor mounts $---
How many wins this year?
might have missed something but could someone fill in the blanks for me?

PJ.... Actually Wayne was very disheartened when a few of the votes didn't fit into the ideas he had for "his 600 Pro Series" In fact he turned and said "it looks like I might not have a vote here next year." In my eyes Wayne has invested alot of his time and money into the Pro Series. I believe he wants to do what he sees best for that Series. At times that may be a different direction than the U6SA.... In my opinion I do agree with Wayne in this decision. Not that I always agree with Wayne ;) But rest assured you will always know where he stands.... I respect his position and what he has done for 600 racing with the Pro Series.


I agree that there was some confusion with some of the rule proposals during the meeting last week. I have reviewed the by laws of the U6SA and unfortunately it looks as if we may have to wait until next years meeting to re-vote on some of the rules. But I'm not 100% sure yet? Maybe another board member can shed light on this subject?

I do believe we can go about the voting and the proposals in a much better way next year. Unfortunately to do this a few of us would need to spend a great deal of our personal time to make it happen. In the next few days or weeks :rolleyes: I am going to put together a proposal for the U6SA members to decide on.

mike i in fact will give up my vote.... you see i will die by my own sword. as far as MFI i would leave that up to the membership of the Pro Series i would suggest that they probably would be split on the issue.

how are you doing Gary nice to see you home safe. the reason behind allowing the higher rev limit on any 600 06-current is that it would make the honda and suzuki so much more competitive then they are now. it's not so much about controling costs as much as it is bringing other choices into the class which will just by virtue of having more choices will bring the resale value down on some of the other engines.
it was voted down at the meeting along with some other head scratchers.

STOP THE PRESS!!!

STOP THE PRESS!!!

Hmm.... after further review of the U6SA by laws below....
Meetings:
· Meetings will be held once per year, unless otherwise deemed appropriate.
· No rule or structure changes will take place unless 50% of the U6SA members are
present.· Only U6SA member’s votes will count toward submitted changes, new director,
and business representation.
· The director will lead the meeting. With the following agenda.
o State of the 600cc class, summary of past season results of U6SA.
o New businesses voted on for U6SA representation. And businesses voted
out of U6SA representation.
o Summary of rule or structure changes submitted.
o Each rule or structure change brought up for discussion then a vote.
o Nominations for new director may speak if they desire.
o New director voted on by secrete ballot.
· Rule or structure changes will be brought up for vote. For a change to take place
2/3 (66.7%) of the voting body must be in agreement for the change.

It seems that As long as the majority of the U6SA members agree that we should hold another meeting to possibly hash out the new found information on the for-said subject..... It would be allowed.

Again this is my opinion but I believe that if we can get at least 2/3 of the 600cc drivers to vote that they want this rule change..... As a U6SA member I would feel responsible to at least have another meeting to possibly spend more time discussing this subject in hopes to come to a conclusion that more represents the ideas of the micro community.

So if you have a friend that is involved in 600 racing ask them to get on here and cast a vote have a voice make it heard. This is your class your investment your time to have a voice.

If you click on the vote numbers it shows you who voted for what guys... Have a voice!

Jason I agree 100 percent and Wayne I have a new found respect for ya..... glad to see someone is seeing the light in furthering this sport.... that rpm rule makes sense in more ways then not





stepping outside U6SA will be a good thing ........ for sure .......

Wow, by the votes at this point.........we might just have to do something here! 90+% in favor of.

Great points Jason and Wayne!

Honda or Suzuki $1000
have it to engine builder $----
chain guard $--
oil pan $---
injection $----
harness $---
power commander or guts $---
motor mounts $---
How many wins this year?
might have missed something but could someone fill in the blanks for me?

Gary,
Here are some comparisons for you...

Engine - Yamaha & Kawasaki = $1700 - $2300 / Honda & Suzuki = $500 - $1100
have it to engine builder - Same $$$ for all engines
chain guard - One time cost for any engine
oil pan - One time cost for any engine
injection - One time cost for any engine
harness - One time cost for any engine
power commander or guts - One time cost for any engine
motor mounts - One time cost for any engine
having a choice of the 4 major brands of engines - PRICELESS

The whole point behind this was to help drive the cost of the Kawasaki and Yamaha engines down. If the Honda & Suzuki could be competitive on a weekly basis for 1/3 - 1/2 of the cost (of the engine) of the Kawasaki and Yamaha then it will drive costs down for every engine.

· Rule or structure changes will be brought up for vote. For a change to take place 2/3 (66.7%) of the voting body must be in agreement for the change.

Not to spoil the party but the rule above is part of the meeting agenda.

Bud you are correct. Any rule must be agreed upon by at least two thirds of the voting U6SA members during a meeting where at least 50% of the members are voting in.

My post about 2/3 of the 600 drivers/owners was a reflection of my opinion. I believe if the majority of the 600 owners/ drivers feel that they want this rule addition as members of the U6SA we have a responsibility to possibly call another meeting and further discuss the situation.

As a voting member of the U6SA I feel we have a responsibility to make sure our votes reflect the opinions of the 600 drivers/owners. Without all of them there wouldn't be a U6SA.....

I don't believe that by allowing this rule to pass that the cost of yams and kawis will go down but it will probably raise the cost of the suz and hon engines. The demand will still be there for the yam and kaw.

But there are some guys that just like the honda or suzuki (brand loyalty) and yet they are made to run something else or force to sit out of racing by the stock rev limit rule (because they don't feel or are not competitive).

This rule follows the intent of the us6a desire to promote and expand the sport of micro racing in allowing closer competition without a high priced performance gain.

Some of the guys outside of the us6a that I have seen run other engines with success: King - Honda, Roney - suz, Gains - suz, Bayer - hond, Ridgeway/Gearte/FTX camps - suz, and Roseman runs a Suz under the Pa legal rules.

600 Drivers and Owners make sure you get your votes in on this poll! :D

I wouldn't mind hearing from those who voted no. Would like to understand their reasoning. Personally I voted yes.

I could see why people voted no. Keep the rules fair for all motors. Will the honda or suzuki have a higher gain than the other motors with the limit raised and just plain no for the sake or thinking changing the rule is dumb.

Does anyone (kinda pointed Hyper and Guhl) know what a dyno looks like with the honda or suzuki turned up to 16,100? Does it make enough of a difference to even worry about making the rule change or is it going to make a problem with the honda or suzuki then being the go to motors?

I believe that one major misinterpretation of this is that by simply allowing these engines to turn 16,100 they are magically going to be competitive. I've run the Honda '06 I believe was the year. This was before the rev limit rule was in place. We turned our motor 15,800 all day long and never had an issue. The issue we had was that the engine was done by an engine builder and still not as competitive as the Kawis. From my point of view we aren't any further ahead then where we are. I believe that the guys stated in a previous post aren't running under PA rules either. I.E.- Porting and CC rules. I believe they are allowed at least 1mm over. So this isn't an apples to apples comparison as far as engine building would go.

I'm not for nor am I opposed to this. I understand that it may open the option up for the brands and you may see more of them. I'm just throwing out there that I've had experience with other brands.

I agree 100%

The idea was to allow 2006 600cc and newer engines to have the same rev limit as the current yamaha R6 16,100. This would allow the other engines to be competitive. If we look on ebay those engines are cheap! If we look at the situation it would help to lower the cost of 600 racing. More engines avalible means lower cost for them accross the board. :eek:

Im not sure how many racers new of this idea......

If you are for this rule change drop a note here in this post and put a vote in the poll here also. :)
I'm resonably sure the oem's did enough r+d to know what the safe rpm limit should be for their engine. Possibly Yamaha has a slight advantage in this type of racing with the higher rev limit so if that is proven to be the case then why not require them to lower their max rpm. That lowers the cost for everyone including the yamaha guys by increasing reliability.

Lowering the rev limits would just make everything obsolete compared to the Kawasaki 636. The idea is to make the engines more useful in competition against each other. I am not sure just how close this would make the engines but I guarantee it will make them more competitive then they are now. As far as raising a standard bore 600 with a relatively low rev limit I feel that it would be safe. Its only a few hundred rpm and I know for a fact that the FACTORY race boxes are turned up that much. Think they are selling them to Joe shmoe to ride on the road with who knows what kind of a maintenance program. I think there is however a problem turning up a larger bird longer stroke engine like the kawi

Although I am for the change, I agree that it is being misconstrued. The increase in rpm's does not make the suz/hon invincible, it only brings them closer into play to which I can be content. It will not lower the cost of yam and kaw (too much of a demand for them) but it will increase the cost of suz and hon.

The listing of the midwest guys comes from some of the truest comparisions I could think that some PA guys could testify to (as for rpm and assuming that most of the regulars have equally built engines). June 19 Powri show at Macon: Henley won with Zearfoss, Dicely, and Greth being there that weekend (maybe this time these guys did not take a PA legal engine at other times it was said that they were runnig pa legal- I didn't check back for any claims on this race). Two guys also there that have comparable engines were Derek King with a 2 mil ftz Honda and Travis Senter with a 2 mil ftz r6 (I think this was with Guhl injection and I think he crashed); check the results or ask someone there who was fast that weekend.

FTZ's website even claims that King's honda (even built like FTZ's Yam's) is not the best but very competetive (FTZ red apple compared to FTZ green apple).

:confused:

, make more engines avalible who gains? if we all have kaws or yamahas who looses , i cannt sell you an injection ,i cannt sell you a new exhaust ,i cannt sell you new motor plates , as for the zuks and the hondas being cheaper look on ebay 08 cbr 600 2000+ 08 zuks even more , , if you guys are really have reliability probs with the yamaha you need to switch to adams performance in nc

Good points posted on this page. :)

Rat i just got an 09 suzuki for $1000.00 shipped to NPS's door complete...most of the 08-10 suzuki's are 800.00+- bare then add $300.00 +- elect throttle bodies etc.

the reason to allow the all 06-present 600cc engines to rev to 16,100 is to try to allow some parity in the class. the baseline is the kawasaki 636 that is what everyone looks at when comparing torque and HP. allowing the extra RPM will put the other engines on a more even plane with the 636. maybe they will go up in price...i doubt it though...

there will be a few guys that switch but i would venture to say maybe a handful but at least it will allow a transition to other engines. using the same criteria, that being the 636 hp and torque, we can adjust the rpm as necessary on other models.

i am going to allow the higher rev in the Pro Series for next season as well as a few other small things. if anyone wants a "cheap class" of 600 go to a track and start a stock on gas class. we have 300+ cars that run in the tri state area there might not be enough cars for each track that wants to run them but we have plenty of cars to start another class

we as a 600 class need to become more adhesive as a group and less selfish. if you want a stock class then start one!!! find 10 guys and a track that would host and build the class. drive an extra half hour the money you save on your engine will more then pay for the trip....

I was able to get a 2010 Suzuki for $750 shipped to me, and that included the injection and electronics! So you definitley have a better chance of getting one of these engines for less, you just need to be patient. Where as the Yamaha's or Kawis you will never get for less.

Now being a newbie to the 600 micro scene, I'm not completely new racing. I've run the 600 modifieds and raced a late model at Grandview.

I'm all for raising the RPM's, or at least trying it to see what it does.

I also had an 09 Suzuki GSXR 600 complete kit shipped to my door for $830. I have found the 08/09 Suzuki engines for $450 for the bare motor.

Good luck finding a Yamaha for twice that price...

I haven't priced any CBR 600RR motors so I don't know what they go for.

I bought an 07 R6 for $500 on Ebay with less then 1000 miles. So there are deals out there.
Also if this rev rule passes we need to add that 600cc only revs at 16,100 anything over 601cc has to rev at stock setting....

i just looked on ebay and all the low mile 08 gsxr are in the 1500 range but if you say you got them cheaper hey good for you , so as they say in nascar boys have at it

I don't see where it hurts to allow this rule. Even with the raised rev limit the Hondas and Suzukis will still probably be at a disadvantage. Tim Dietz posted that he turned his Honda at 15,800 and didn't have any problems. Hopefully they hold together.

Ok so were trying to make all the rev limits the same? If the goal is to make the engines more similiar shouldn't we ban all 636cc engine, or open them all up to 636 as we are trying to make the motors more alike. I am not an engine smart person but a question I have is will all these other manufacture be able to rev that high and maintain longevity and life? Aren't the rev limits put in for a reason?

The On LIne Voting poll for raising the revs to 16100 for Hondas/Suzuki / 81% in favor of...13.5 % against.....yet doesn't get Approval by U6SA ??....After 2 yrs involved in 600 racing...i can see the pattern of things by the U6SA....I have no doubt the organization started with good intentions...but one only has to look at the voting to understand what is happening...Between sponsorship $$....exclusive kawi engine builders whose revenue would decrease by people switching to other engines and builders.....and current kawi owners who dont want to see a devaluation of their engine`s by other equal engines available........And now here comes the future ...a yr ago allowed rev was 300 over the limit....then this past yr...150.....and now 50 for 2011....gosh...now we have to go get everything re-dyno`d...So ..now i will need one set of electronics for U6SA ruled tracks.....and another set for the pro series and 2 dyno jobs....its just money and it grows out back....but i Think Mr. Lesher is doing more to promote 600 racing on an even playing field then any other organization out there, He owns kawi`s and yet has the testicles to raise the rev for competing engines ..talk about being fair !!.....Why not just let every engine be allowed to be a true 636...if i want to get my engine bored and spend the bucks to do it its my choice.....but it would be nice to be on an even keel with Kawi 636....vs my NPS Honda 600RR...and then just keep the STOCK rev limits ..I wonder what some of the non-member U6SA tracks who claim they follow U6Sa rules will do now with their sat nite regulars who also run a variety of tracks/ special shows during the yr....think revs will be checked at their tracks ??? ..........The saddest part of all this is the pending split...Every 600 owner/driver and track should be uniting to promote this sport and it just seems to me certain powers to be would rather have people divided for their own financial gain...JMO..

Ray i would respectufully have to disagree with you. It's not about the money as much as it is the people not casting the votes understanding what they are voting on.

I'm not insinuating that anyone is stupid. i think it's a product of the atmosphere and confusion that happens when 50? people get in a room once a year. everything starts out normally but it's inevitable that it will get not as in control as it started. with different opinions and ideas going back and forth it's probably not the best situation to be casting crtitical votes quite honestly

The folks that it would effect the most i think are the ones that killed the motion. The tracks and the drivers. that and a 2/3 majority needed. Everyone voted for a 2/3 majority as the minimum to overturn or institute a new rule and on paper you would think that would the way it should be. the reality however is what we have now which i , along with alot of other people i talk to think is a huge mistake.

There was no practical reason not to vote yes to institute a rule that would allow essentially Hondas and suzuki's to become competitive with the Kawasaki. just as the yamaha has done. It doesn't raise the cost of the engine, Tim Dietz has alot of experience with Hondas it was his opinion that overeving them cuased no increase in the amount of failures ( i'm paraphrasing) I know guys in the mid west that are running suzuki's and getting 30+ races on engines that are reving 16,100 + and aren't having issues with failures.

There just should not have been a reason for not allowing the over rev on all 600cc engines from 06-10 600cc is the important part not 619 not that it was a 600cc and you overbored it if it is a 600cc engine it can rev to 16,100 simple, easy, done and it would have allowed a quicker transition away from kawasaki and i contend would have allowed a greater and immediate response in the engines competing in our races.

I am in favor of the U6SA, and i support the efforts of the organization but i will allow the higher 600 rev limit in the Pro Series. I think, actually i know this will be good for our class and it might also allow more parity in not only engines but engines builders. if an engine builder puts all his eggs in one basket and doesn't R&D and expand his offerings , well then he won't reaps the rewards.

It's a win win for everyone that doesn't have a single minded selfish vision for this class

Wayne,

Agreed. I was very surprised that allowing 06-10 600cc engines to rev to 16,100 rpm was not passed. After going around at Linda's and explaining the reasoning for why this was proposed there was only one driver that was not in favor of it. I was planning on doing some experimenting with different engines for next year. However, since the rev limits for the honda and suzuki must remain lower I might not take the chance on them.

I would not jump to conclusions about anything or anyone based on a re-vote not happening after the initial vote. The fact is there has been discussion about a re-vote and whether or not it would be a viable option according to the U6SA by laws. It seems that it would be allowed it just has to be moved on by the board. I posted the poll to get some feedback from the racers. It definitely does seem that there should be a re-vote on this rule idea. As a board member I plan on bringing the idea of a re-vote up based on the public poll. If I have enough support from the board I will make a motion to approve the change and initiate a re-vote on this subject. The only way I see a re-vote option viable is if like in this case by vote the racers want it. As a board we try our best to do what is best and keep in mind what the majority of the racers want.

Wayne...Zach....Jason...thanx for the response.....I know im one of the few people running something other then a Kawi here in the N.E. ...and perhaps someone with dyno/engine knowledge could answer the following, all the following numbers are hypothetical ...if a motor makes peak Torque at 12k rpm...and its rev limit is 15300....and the rev limit is changed to 16100....will this change raise the rpms where the peak torque is reached ? Depending on the answer ill be able to tell you if raising the rpms will help or not...........

it will not change the peak numbers but it will let you add more gear to be closer to peak torque at exit without laying on the chip half way down the straightaway

with all the time people waste on rules.... and rule meetings... they should just open the rules up and let it land where it may.... whether its losing cars or gaining cars....because the time it takes to go over these rules and issues is actually taking " the money " away from racers actual work which provides them the ability to race:D

RM4JR - Rat is correct. Raising the rev limit will do nothing to where the engine makes its peak numbers. It will allow the motor to turn more RPM's coming off the turn.

it will not change the peak numbers but it will let you add more gear to be closer to peak torque at exit without laying on the chip half way down the straightaway

Rat just a ???? do you think changing RPMS. will make the differents or do you think they will lose it again down the straight. Don't you think it would be better to gear it in it's torque range because all the trans. are not the same as i said before. Last if there was a benefit to the higher RPMS. dont't you think they would have it that way from the factory. :)

Two potential issues that I can see.

1/ Rods will once again become a problem (just like the old days with the rev boxes, If the Japs thought their stock rods could handle the extra RPM and since RPM is so important, don't ya think thye would have had that from the factory ????)

2/ People will really start playing with different camshafts to try to get Max HP higher in the RPM range so the extra RPM can really be put to use.

yes i do think it is a benifit to the higher rpms , once brian ford got the guys running the kaw green box/ race box to the legal rpm my yamaha was instantly more competitive , why didnt the manufactuers do it i would have to say the same as rohan so the rods dont fly out

I would say OEM keeps it down a bit because of warranty issues and planning on the engines seeing 10-20k with out being internally serviced. All of the OEM race boxes allow up to 500 more rpm. More than what it will take to even the playing field.

2/ People will really start playing with different camshafts to try to get Max HP higher in the RPM range so the extra RPM can really be put to use.

Just wondering... Is there really much more that can be done with cams on these engines? The rules do not allow you to change the lift of the factory cams. However, duration is open.

4. Head and Cams
d) Cam may not have a higher lift than the stock factory cam. (duration is open)

You can slightly change the power peak in the rpm range by adjusting the duration and changing the cam timing. But nothing radical. The intake runners shape, size and lenght and valve size have much more to do with the characteristics of the engine. However all of those things combined with the camshaft does give an engine most of its attitude :) I have seen a big valved engine with I higher lift cam move the power range like 1500 rpm. Both of which are illegal.

bottom line is without the Rev rule being passed at the annual meeting we will wait another year for something other then the Kawasaki. this isn't the same situation as the MFI before that gets started. the 600 class is essentially a spec class. you need to have a Kawasaki to be competitive. yamaha has some good runs but the realiabilty is in question. what you have to do to the yamaha to make it competitve also takes away the realiabilty. Both the honda and suzuki are know to be bullet proof. The klawasaki is still available and the price isn't much higher then it was 2-3 years ago

i do support the U6SA and i understand that the rule is the rule. The Pro Series will place common sense to our rule package. the rules will be 98% the same as the U6SA the difference is we will allow the higher rev and we are also going to indentify affordable altenatives to the kawassaki race box and the GUTS box and allow rthose also. Not that the GUTS and Kawasaki boxes aren't affordable. i just have a problem allowing only two race systems into the fray. when their are plenty others that are as affordable and put the tuning, if they so desire, into the hands of the end user. there always will be a demand for the GUTS and Kawasaki system but there are other racers who want more options and the PRO (providing racers options) Series is going to do just that

bottom line is without the Rev rule being passed at the annual meeting we will wait another year for something other then the Kawasaki. this isn't the same situation as the MFI before that gets started. the 600 class is essentially a spec class. you need to have a Kawasaki to be competitive. yamaha has some good runs but the realiabilty is in question. what you have to do to the yamaha to make it competitve also takes away the realiabilty. Both the honda and suzuki are know to be bullet proof. The klawasaki is still available and the price isn't much higher then it was 2-3 years ago

i do support the U6SA and i understand that the rule is the rule. The Pro Series will place common sense to our rule package. the rules will be 98% the same as the U6SA the difference is we will allow the higher rev and we are also going to indentify affordable altenatives to the kawassaki race box and the GUTS box and allow rthose also. Not that the GUTS and Kawasaki boxes aren't affordable. i just have a problem allowing only two race systems into the fray. when their are plenty others that are as affordable and put the tuning, if they so desire, into the hands of the end user. there always will be a demand for the GUTS and Kawasaki system but there are other racers who want more options and the PRO (providing racers options) Series is going to do just that

way to be open minded wayne

It is all about acceleration and when you hit peak Hp your rate of acceleration flattens out gaining very little. You can put in more gear to bring the engine into the fatter part of the power curve coming out of the corners is the only advantage of changing the rpm limiter higher. Otherwise you just cause a significant decrease in engine life expectancy. There is a critical crank rpm harmonic as well as valve springs that causes earlier failures to occur. That is why the factory set the rev limiters where they are before the engine builders do their thing to make more Hp and also make the engine live longer under the additional competition stresses.

I also had hoped it would pass. I felt that I explained it pretty well to the regular 600 racers at Linda's and almost everyone was in favor of it. Seemed like that could only benefit the class. I guess now we have to wait until next year...

wow i said about a rpm rule like three weeks ago iam glad someone listened!! (check out a stock engine class)

What we are talking about is "rpm over run" allowance since we found out that the ECU first cuts back the fuel before the ignition which you don't get running carbs. So it is now factory RPM setting even running carbs which means modifying the ECU again.

http://www.vtac.co.uk/serv-r607.htm

To really tech an engine really requires a complete disassembly which would be a nightmare for everyone.

Well maybe we can borrow a body scan machine from the airports.:eek: