post can be deleted

You may get an answer quicker if you ask this in the U6SA section. The U6SA president is a Mod in that forum.

I really think a lot of racers are missing this whole issue.... if one person can modify any and all parameters of an ecu then all of the racers "themselves" should be able to do the same..... its only logical and dare I say fair

don is making a cable to do just that ! for sale to the public ,

don is making a cable to do just that ! for sale to the public ,

although that is awesome and I applaud don and his crew for making advancements in that ability.....it still leaves it in only one vendors hands.... not really equal in my book

What is the difference if its available for the masses to buy and use?
When Kawi green boxes were being used at first no-one was complaining, and that was essentially the same exact thing. Bottom line is you have many options as far as tuning yor car(jets, powercommander, kawi green box if u have a kaw, bazzazz, ignition advancers) and now, thanks to Don you will have 1 more.

Rick

What is the difference if its available for the masses to buy and use?
When Kawi green boxes were being used at first no-one was complaining, and that was essentially the same exact thing. Bottom line is you have many options as far as tuning yor car(jets, powercommander, kawi green box if u have a kaw, bazzazz, ignition advancers) and now, thanks to Don you will have 1 more.

Rick

rick i could just say yes we do have one more.... and your are 100% correct... but the others you have mentioned are not along the lines of don's ecu mod abilities or i should say adjustment abilities...

p.s. i am all for new technolgy and don has hit that mark...... just don't think it should be limited to just one

its only limited by others lack of effort.

its only limited by others lack of effort.

So when Engler's innovation came to town everybody went up in arms about it because of claimed extra money or an unfair HP advantage.... and the powers that be "clarified that out of the rules" but when the same scenario comes to town just on a different part of the engine such as this ecu.... which adds hp and adds more money that's ok? I just wanna make sure we are all on the same page here?

See you at the races Michael, There are many options out there. I am simply stating that, just Like Jim did. Have fun racing in 2011.

See you at the races Michael, There are many options out there. I am simply stating that, just Like Jim did. Have fun racing in 2011.

Exactly...:D good luck rick

I agree with Mike on this one, We need to have other options to make these changes that can only be done inside the ECU.

I think we need to make a list of affordable alternative options, educatace the masses and especially the ones that vote, then come to the fall meeting prepared and make it first on the list to discus, seems by the end of the meeting everyone is just focused on getting home.

Hopefullt we can get it to pass.

I'm not getting into a pissing match, but the statement made of adding more money is untrue.

Don charged me $265 I believe to have this done.

From hyperracing.com sorry mike to pick on you, your website is the easiest to get around to products.

603-109
Power Commander lllUSB for '06 & Up Yamaha YZF-R6
$329.00

603-000
Power Commander V
$359.00
+
603-050
Power Commander AutoTune Module
$249.00

By using the PC 5 will cost me $608 plus tax. By Don doing his deal I save $343. Thats 3 right rears for me. Plus a couple of burgers at the track.

I don't really see a huge advantage to what Don is doing. Don is basicly saving me money by bypassing the P.C. I personally think why most people have a problem with it is because they for once have no idea how he did it and simply can not figure it out.

We struggled for weeks with a bad power commander, never once yet have a failure with Don in the box.

I'm not getting into a pissing match, but the statement made of adding more money is untrue.

Don charged me $265 I believe to have this done.

From hyperracing.com sorry mike to pick on you, your website is the easiest to get around to products.

603-109
Power Commander lllUSB for '06 & Up Yamaha YZF-R6
$329.00

603-000
Power Commander V
$359.00
+
603-050
Power Commander AutoTune Module
$249.00

By using the PC 5 will cost me $608 plus tax. By Don doing his deal I save $343. Thats 3 right rears for me. Plus a couple of burgers at the track.

I don't really see a huge advantage to what Don is doing. Don is basicly saving me money by bypassing the P.C. I personally think why most people have a problem with it is because they for once have no idea how he did it and simply can not figure it out.

We struggled for weeks with a bad power commander, never once yet have a failure with Don in the box.

we are talking about something different.....then the guts tune.... don is or will be selling a cable and software so you the racer can adjust anything you want.... for around $600.00

then what is the problem, the auto tune 5 is $608. If Don sells the cord for $600 you are still spending more for the auto tune.

I guess then the problem is allowing the general racer to change settings inside the box.

What does it matter if it only leaves it in one vendors hands?

If I make a wing that works well is it not fair because I'm the only person who currently has the ability to sell it?

Would the content in the topic be different if 4 vendors had the opportunity to sell it?

I'm not being smart, I don't see what the problem is.

Welcome to our forum! This is where we turn horse into hamburger daily! :D

then what is the problem, the auto tune 5 is $608. If Don sells the cord for $600 you are still spending more for the auto tune.

I guess then the problem is allowing the general racer to change settings inside the box.

What does it matter if it only leaves it in one vendors hands?

If I make a wing that works well is it not fair because I'm the only person who currently has the ability to sell it?

Would the content in the topic be different if 4 vendors had the opportunity to sell it?

I'm not being smart, I don't see what the problem is.

to answer your statement .......the auto tune or power commander is appparently very limited compared to don's deal.....


items like this and others should be allowed which they are currently not

http://www.odumspecialties.com/electronic%20parts%20page.htm#power box


the rule states no aftermarket ecus..... well no standard factory ecus are adjustable so you would need a factory race ecu($1500ish ?) or some type of an aftermarket ecu to able to adjust the things discussed.... all i am saying is "whats good for the goose is whats good for trhe gander" ...... i don't think that is being unrealistic

I am with Jes on this. I chased a beat power commander for 4 motors, and half a season, and noone thought a BRAND NEW power commander could be bad, not even (especially) power commander.
I still dont get the problem?
The factory race boxes have been used by everyone for years. and no-one had a problem shelling out the $ for the box, adapter harness and pc programming cable (to the tune of like 1200 dollars total) and the racer did what ever he wanted then, and for that matter still does, that issue is techs problem.
Now the same options are being made available to the racer by a vendor, rather than the factory, and suddenly it is an issue?

If the problem is with the state of the rules in your mind, then bottom line, is if you want a rule change submit it and get it voted on by the racers, tracks etc... No-one is ever happy with everything, but a process has been put in place to deal with it, so use it!!!!! I was told an aftermarket bolt on I had (to try to get my car to run cooler) was illegal last year too, so i took it off, submitted a rule change and everyone (vendors, racers etc.) all voted on it.

Hypermotive Nailed it, Horsey is dead.
The racers as well as the vendors and tracks ALL voted. Thats what has formulated the rules as they stand. You can't live in the past, try to mold the future.
All the bickering is tiresome, and i feel that if people went about things in the right manner more often, then they might just see results that are more reflective of what they are trying to accomplish.

Its not always what you say, sometimes its how you say it.

Good luck racing in 2011 Everyone.
Be sure to submit your rules suggestions to your U6SA Rep, whoever he/she may be so he can get them to Mike Dicely the U6SA President so he can get them in the suggestions list early enough for racers to be able to ponder, evaluate, educate themselves and vote accordingly.

I am with Jes on this. I chased a beat power commander for 4 motors, and half a season, and noone thought a BRAND NEW power commander could be bad, not even (especially) power commander.
I still dont get the problem?
The factory race boxes have been used by everyone for years. and no-one had a problem shelling out the $ for the box, adapter harness and pc programming cable (to the tune of like 1200 dollars total) and the racer did what ever he wanted then, and for that matter still does, that issue is techs problem.
Now the same options are being made available to the racer by a vendor, rather than the factory, and suddenly it is an issue?

If the problem is with the state of the rules in your mind, then bottom line, is if you want a rule change submit it and get it voted on by the racers, tracks etc... No-one is ever happy with everything, but a process has been put in place to deal with it, so use it!!!!! I was told an aftermarket bolt on I had (to try to get my car to run cooler) was illegal last year too, so i took it off, submitted a rule change and everyone (vendors, racers etc.) all voted on it.

Hypermotive Nailed it, Horsey is dead.
The racers as well as the vendors and tracks ALL voted. Thats what has formulated the rules as they stand. You can't live in the past, try to mold the future.
All the bickering is tiresome, and i feel that if people went about things in the right manner more often, then they might just see results that are more reflective of what they are trying to accomplish.

Its not always what you say, sometimes its how you say it.

Good luck racing in 2011 Everyone.
Be sure to submit your rules suggestions to your U6SA Rep, whoever he/she may be so he can get them to Mike Dicely the U6SA President so he can get them in the suggestions list early enough for racers to be able to ponder, evaluate, educate themselves and vote accordingly.


Rick,
There is no gripes about this product and this isn't suddenly an issue.... just allowing it and only it is not right in my book.... and you actually proved my point in my thinking.... the rules state this...... "no aftermarket ecu's .....must be factory stock or factory race ecu"...... I highlighted where you said "vendor" ..... so now a vendor is changing this ecu? to me that spells "aftermarket" ...? it's not a factory yamaha race ecu and its not "factory stock" ..... it is "stock appearing" and its not a rule issue either, what i am merely stating is that this does not fall into "factory stock" or "factory race ecu" then it can only be "aftermarket by a vendor" .... thus leads to my next point of that if that is allowed then any ecu that has any inkling of "aftermarket" should be allowed since they too would not fit in the "factory stock" or "factory racing ecu"


why you or others arent seeing that i don't know and maybe when it was voted on it wasnt made that clear.... i did hear grumblings of outlawing it but it would be too hard to tech hence why it was allowed to stay........ I DO NOT WANT TO OUTLAW DONS WORKINGS..... JUST RECOGNIZE IT DOESNT FIT THE RULES AND IF ITS ALLOWED THEN OTHERS SHOULD BE ALLOWED AS WELL..... DONT GET CONFUSED OR MAKE ASSUMPTIONS.....

and all this talk of write a rule up and submit it to Dicely is nonsense.... we should use the same "clarification committee" that was used last year to outlaw certain things that werent even in the rules MID SEASON....

maybe you are right on how i say things ,but making sure i dont upset people is not on my short list not everyone will like me or my posts.... so don't read them i guess .. im here to make sure things are kept in the light, even and fair if it comes off differently i cant help that ....




btw---if anyone needs clarification of "stock"..... look up "flywheel" on this site

your funny, you should update your short-list, but thats just my opinion. :-)
Ha-Ha.

Just to add one more point, without this form of tuning to being allowed carbs could not be run legally either. (with the need for correcting the rev limit.)

I still think a rule proposal would be needed to allow the Odum stuff. The rules committee was supposed to clarify the rules not change them.
I dont remember anyone proposing this ign last yr, when did it come out?
Not against anything, but I am in favor of a standard rules process so they don't change day to day.
Cya

your funny, you should update your short-list, but thats just my opinion. :-)
Ha-Ha.

Just to add one more point, without this form of tuning to being allowed carbs could not be run legally either. (with the need for correcting the rev limit.)

I still think a rule proposal would be needed to allow the Odum stuff. The rules committee was supposed to clarify the rules not change them.
I dont remember anyone proposing this ign last yr, when did it come out?
Not against anything, but I am in favor of a standard rules process so they don't change day to day.
Cya

Rick I've been reading along here & have a ???? for you. How come a manufacture can come out with a product & sell it no ???? asked. Then another product comes out & right away it got to go threw hoops to use it. Also I see PJ's point & agree with him for more then one reason. :)

Double D,

The U6SA was put in place to try and curb "some" of the costs associated with the engine. It is mostly concered with the engine, with the exception of the weight and bladder rules (I think thats all the rules that don't apply to the engine).

I understand the fact that no one but Don is able to modify the ECU from the inside. The rules read, "no physically modified ECU". Don is not physically modifying anything. The other side to this argument is, there is no patent on what Don is doing. Anyone is allowed to spend the money, time and effort Don has put into his GUTS box. It simply boils down to, no one else can figure out what Don has as of yet.

We have beaten this ECU horse to death, buried it, dug it up, and are now beating it again... HAHA

Double D,

The U6SA was put in place to try and curb "some" of the costs associated with the engine. It is mostly concered with the engine, with the exception of the weight and bladder rules (I think thats all the rules that don't apply to the engine).

I understand the fact that no one but Don is able to modify the ECU from the inside. The rules read, "no physically modified ECU". Don is not physically modifying anything. The other side to this argument is, there is no patent on what Don is doing. Anyone is allowed to spend the money, time and effort Don has put into his GUTS box. It simply boils down to, no one else can figure out what Don has as of yet.

We have beaten this ECU horse to death, buried it, dug it up, and are now beating it again... HAHA

its not "factory stock" so if you wanna graze over that part you are correct it is not physically modified lol as it's stated in the rules... patent or not i dont think anyone wants to invent an ecu-thinga-ma-jiggy like don has when they can just call up and order one that is already made from other "vendors"..... don on the other hand ..... well thats his business and pays his bills and thats why he HAS spent time money and effort on making one....and more power to him i hope he sells a few thousand... but only allowing his ecu because of how he does it because it's packaged in a factory ecu and not physically altered but internally altered is not in anyway "FACTORY STOCK"

dead horse or not its funny to see how many people turn their heads on blatant areas that are highly deabateable if infact flat out illegal by U6SA rules

Just imagine if we had a no limit rule on motors and a very tight limit on chassis..... boy how heads would roll then...:eek:

Actually there are others out there that can do the same.....don is not the only one

such as Christian Piasini out of Italy

http://garageendeavors.com/

http://www.performancecycleworx.com/2011/01/performance-cycleworx-introduces-race-and-street-ecu-for-r6r1-yamahas/

are these legal.... ? anyone?

Thanks Zach
Read the rules, its legal.

If you want the rules changed propose a change, like suggested many times before, and get it voted on by all the 600 Class Racers, since those are the guys whos votes and voices matter the most, report the results to their respective reps.

What I think matters most is what the majority, not 1 or 2 or 3 racers, wants.
Good lUck
L8tr

your funny, you should update your short-list, but thats just my opinion. :-)
Ha-Ha.

Just to add one more point, without this form of tuning to being allowed carbs could not be run legally either. (with the need for correcting the rev limit.)

I still think a rule proposal would be needed to allow the Odum stuff.

I brought the use of the ODUM BOX to the attention of Mike D. and the rules committee last spring so I could run carbs and be legal with the rev. limit rule. I was told No and had to spend alot more money to run legal. So how are these rules keeping the prices down as far as the electronics go??

I brought the use of the ODUM BOX to the attention of Mike D. and the rules committee last spring so I could run carbs and be legal with the rev. limit rule. I was told No and had to spend alot more money to run legal. So how are these rules keeping the prices down as far as the electronics go??

correct it was brought up.... maybe some people(rick:D) were texting during that part of the meeting

Thanks Zach
Read the rules, its legal.

If you want the rules changed propose a change, like suggested many times before, and get it voted on by all the 600 Class Racers, since those are the guys whos votes and voices matter the most, report the results to their respective reps.

What I think matters most is what the majority, not 1 or 2 or 3 racers, wants.
Good lUck
L8tr

from the rules....

1. Terms and conditions
a) If a change or modification to the stock engine or its parts is not included in these rules then
the modification is considered legal.
b) The word “Stock” means unmodified factory original parts or components

Ignition
a) No aftermarket ignition systems, must use factory Stock or factory racing ECU, No hot ECU
boxes, no physically modified ECU boxes. Factory race boxes are ok, but must have the rev
limit set to the street bike stock rev limit. Stock Rev Limiter must remain intact at all times
(ex: no switched or gear specific limiters). If a computer is hooked up to check the ECU it
must be set to factory stock specifications, no tolerance. See specifications list for RPM limits.


judging how i am reading these rules it means untouched in any form..... or are you guys just focusing in on "physically modified"..... last time i checked you dont get a cable with your r6 from the dealer or your kawasaki either to play with your ecu

and rick you keep saying get it voted on by the racers.... why didn't you say the same thing when it came to my MFI? which in fact was never anything in 2010 rules to even decide on.... come on now you can't have it both ways

I think it's time for the clarification comittee on this one... lol oh and no conflict of interest parties please.... come on U6SA do your duties as a sanctioning body


p.s. if the factory yamaha kawasaki or honda racing team uses motec boxes..... does that mean we can use " the factory racing box" since the "factory racing team uses it" that one is as grey as this page we are typing on haha

[QUOTE=PJ 91;86756
and rick you keep saying get it voted on by the racers.... why didn't you say the same thing when it came to my MFI? [/QUOTE]

I did
About 1000 times
:-)

Mike you were probably talking to me at that point in the meeting.
Oh well
I give up, or gave up already i guess.
Happy new racing season
lets go! get your car together and get racing dood!

dont know how to make that quote thing work..........

I brought the use of the ODUM BOX to the attention of Mike D. and the rules committee last spring so I could run carbs and be legal with the rev. limit rule. I was told No and had to spend alot more money to run legal. So how are these rules keeping the prices down as far as the electronics go??


correct it was brought up.... maybe some people(rick:D) were texting during that part of the meeting

You are correct, it was brought up. However, it was ONLY brought up at the time of the meeting. I don't remember anything about it being brought up any time before the rules meeting. If it was, sorry, I just don't remember it. I was in favor of allowing "certain" aftermarket boxes to be used. The reason I did not want to vote on it, at the meeting, was because I didn't have any time to review what the RACERS of the track I represented wanted. I personally was in favor of allowing other ecu's. But since I couldn't review it with the racers from my track and get their opinion on it, I would not have voted on it.

I agree with Rick, we can't just allow everything because 1,2, or even 3 guys want it. It needs to be reviewed by the masses with as much information as possible so everyone can make an informed decision. There were certain things I voted in favor of this year that I personally did not agree with. But, that is what the racers from my track wanted so that is how I voted. It isn't about what one person wants for their own personal reasons, it is what the majority wants.

The GUTS box specifically was brought up at the meeting. I remember everyone, or at least the vast majority, saying the GUTS box should be allowed to be used in 2011. It may change next year, but for this year the GUTS box is perfectly legal as voted on by the U6SA.

Again, I am in favor of "certain" aftermarket ECU's becoming legal. I also feel each aftermarket ECU needs to be looked at individually. If anyone wants a certain box to become legal, send me an email with all the information on the box (price, what it can do, as much as possible). I will prepare a rule change proposal for 2012 for the boxes I receive emails about. Unfortunately, there is nothing that can be done for 2011. The rules for 2011 are set. The best that can be done is start educating people for the vote at the end of this year.

Good luck racing this year!!!

You are correct, it was brought up. However, it was ONLY brought up at the time of the meeting. I don't remember anything about it being brought up any time before the rules meeting. If it was, sorry, I just don't remember it. I was in favor of allowing "certain" aftermarket boxes to be used. The reason I did not want to vote on it, at the meeting, was because I didn't have any time to review what the RACERS of the track I represented wanted. I personally was in favor of allowing other ecu's. But since I couldn't review it with the racers from my track and get their opinion on it, I would not have voted on it.

I agree with Rick, we can't just allow everything because 1,2, or even 3 guys want it. It needs to be reviewed by the masses with as much information as possible so everyone can make an informed decision. There were certain things I voted in favor of this year that I personally did not agree with. But, that is what the racers from my track wanted so that is how I voted. It isn't about what one person wants for their own personal reasons, it is what the majority wants.

The GUTS box specifically was brought up at the meeting. I remember everyone, or at least the vast majority, saying the GUTS box should be allowed to be used in 2011. It may change next year, but for this year the GUTS box is perfectly legal as voted on by the U6SA.

Again, I am in favor of "certain" aftermarket ECU's becoming legal. I also feel each aftermarket ECU needs to be looked at individually. If anyone wants a certain box to become legal, send me an email with all the information on the box (price, what it can do, as much as possible). I will prepare a rule change proposal for 2012 for the boxes I receive emails about. Unfortunately, there is nothing that can be done for 2011. The rules for 2011 are set. The best that can be done is start educating people for the vote at the end of this year.

Good luck racing this year!!!

Zach you are 100% correct it was mentioned at the meeting not before.....

and I do agree the rules are set and shouldn't be changed mid-season..... apparently that must be a new thing in 2011 ........cause in 2010 that was not followed..... (yes i am grinding an axe lol)

z_light11 I appreciate that you got back to my ????. Now here's another one. If something is found right at the beginning of the season that has a performance advantage to it & say 12 people have it. Something that brings up a ? mark or falls in a grey area. Now the season has already started will it have to wait to the end of the yr. to see if it will stay or not. :)

Zach you are 100% correct it was mentioned at the meeting not before.....

and I do agree the rules are set and shouldn't be changed mid-season..... apparently that must be a new thing in 2011 ........cause in 2010 that was not followed..... (yes i am grinding an axe lol)

LOL... Where are you racing this year?

z_light11 I appreciate that you got back to my ????. Now here's another one. If something is found right at the beginning of the season that has a performance advantage to it & say 12 people have it. Something that brings up a ? mark or falls in a grey area. Now the season has already started will it have to wait to the end of the yr. to see if it will stay or not. :)

I will give you my answer the way I interpret the rules. If something is found that is a gray area, it should be brought to the attention of the clarification committee.

Since the rules were re-written this year to try and make them more clear here is my personal opinion. The rules were re-written so that "if it doesn't say you can't, then you can." So that is how I would feel on your question. My personal opinion would be that if the 2011 rules do not deem your product illegal, then you should be allowed to run/use it.

That is the best I can answer that question without specifics. Did you have something specific in mind? I'm not trying to call you out or anything either. If you do have something specific but would rather not share it with everyone, send me a PM. It will stay between you and I unless you want me to investigate it further for you.

LOL... Where are you racing this year?

airport to start.... i have a friend who helps me...his daughter is starting 125's so gonna help her get going.... i have carbs so i can travel around like to hit lanco and middleford

You are correct, it was brought up. However, it was ONLY brought up at the time of the meeting. I don't remember anything about it being brought up any time before the rules meeting. If it was, sorry, I just don't remember it.

Just to clearify. I brought it up to Mike Dicely and then the committee in March of 2010 so it has been a year sense I requested the ability to use the ODUM box. But it is what it is.

Good luck to everyone who can afford to race.

I just saw your post
I would be very interested in discussing this issue with you on this topic.
The newer ignitions are getting harder and harder to fool to run with carburetors. Take the 2008 and newer yamaha r6r , As far as I know no one have figured out how to keep them from defaulting so your rules are making owners of these motors to go with a older igniton just to make them run.
If guts can change timing fuel rev limiters in a stock appearing and be legal why not let the racer save money on a cheaper system.

Rick Odum
ODUM Specialties

I just saw your post
I would be very interested in discussing this issue with you on this topic.
The newer ignitions are getting harder and harder to fool to run with carburetors. Take the 2008 and newer yamaha r6r , As far as I know no one have figured out how to keep them from defaulting so your rules are making owners of these motors to go with a older igniton just to make them run.
If guts can change timing fuel rev limiters in a stock appearing and be legal why not let the racer save money on a cheaper system.

Rick Odum
ODUM Specialties

That is the way I feel about it too, u6sa is the only org that I know of that won't allow it.

Reminds me of a board game

Reminds me of a board game

yeah its called monopoly and you gotta keep paying 200.00 everytime you go around lol :D

Zach you are 100% correct it was mentioned at the meeting not before.....

and I do agree the rules are set and shouldn't be changed mid-season..... apparently that must be a new thing in 2011 ........cause in 2010 that was not followed..... (yes i am grinding an axe lol)

You keep bringing this up that the rules were changed mid-season last year and I just don't get it. I wish I could find a copy of the 2010 rules, but they said something like if the engine came from the factory with fuel injection (yours did), you may modify the fuel injection for use with methanol (yours did), but the throttle bodies must remain stock (yours were not stock). I don't get it.

As far as the flywheel issue, I don't remember you being involved in 600's as much 2 years ago. If you were there during that incident, you'd know it was much more of a witch hunt by someone trying to win a championship than anything else. The same car was protested by the same person 3-4 weeks in a row for many different things. Prior to any of the protests, the protester asked Mike whether or not the modification was legal. He had told them it was in his mind, and that is what he had told the engine builder(s). It is because of that whole incident that the clarification committee even exists.

You keep bringing this up that the rules were changed mid-season last year and I just don't get it. I wish I could find a copy of the 2010 rules, but they said something like if the engine came from the factory with fuel injection (yours did), you may modify the fuel injection for use with methanol (yours did), but the throttle bodies must remain stock (yours were not stock). I don't get it.

As far as the flywheel issue, I don't remember you being involved in 600's as much 2 years ago. If you were there during that incident, you'd know it was much more of a witch hunt by someone trying to win a championship than anything else. The same car was protested by the same person 3-4 weeks in a row for many different things. Prior to any of the protests, the protester asked Mike whether or not the modification was legal. He had told them it was in his mind, and that is what he had told the engine builder(s). It is because of that whole incident that the clarification committee even exists.


jamie.... its explained several times in numerous posts and im pretty sure directly to you before because you didnt get it.... in a nutshell yet again


it was aksed if MFi was allowed to run and the clarification guys said it was was allowed to run... as long as you have factory electrics....NO OTHER STIPULATIONS..... at that time there were no MFI systems using stock TB's so I went ahead based on that POST ON THIS BOARD by the president of U6SA and got some MFI.... then it all went to hell in a pot.... instead of following suit by their posts allowing it.... they did a turn about and clarified it out..... to this day what exact rule they clarified is still a mystery

the rules stated if you use "factory fuel injection" (i.e. the same that hyper and guhl convert) "YOU MUST USE STOCK THROTTLE BODIES"

Englers are not "factory fuel injection" ---therefore that rule did not apply to that injection when it came to using stock throttle bodies....

whether you get it or not or agree or not does not matter to me what matters is the principles of having a sanctioning body must honor what they say and stand behind it.... and if they choose not to do it or allow certain things for whatever reason then it is a flawed system.... it may be good for the masses but when you put it under a magnifying glass it has a different look to it

I am still running it and if i wanna travel elsewhere that does not allow it.... i ll throw a set of carbs on... problem solved....

Don't put yourselves in a Locked Box with your Motor rules . You have to be mindful that parts might be hard to get because of the Nuke deal in Japan this year . You might have a problem getting parts because of this . If this happens and you can't get parts or can't use certain other parts because they wern't deemed not legal or fall into a gray area rule ing thing , then what ??? Hmmm Looks to me like the VENDORS enjoying the protection and security of these rules might get burned by them . Sometimes you have to be a little flexable in your thinking guys .