How is the price of fuel affecting your racing for the summer? How is everyone adjusting there lifestyles? I would think car counts would drop over the summer at alot of tracks.
JUST CURIOUS

We travel from Port Jervis, N.Y. to GVAT - a little over two hours I84 West to I81 South to Rt 80 West and it sure seems like it's up-hill (both ways). Using my son's Dodge (gas), he fills up prior to leaving and we fill up again as we get off of Rt 80 on our way to the track. That's an easy $160.00+ total for gas. The last few weeks we've been lucky and have had someone else tow us that gets a deal on his fuel. I'm surprised the car counts at GVAT have been so healthy. Are most of their drivers fairly "local"? With the high cost of gas/fuel, we only go to GVAT.

Jason bought a computer to reprogram his Escalade so it can run E85. This has saved him a few bucks on fuel back and forth to Path and Trailways. We just wish more stations sold E85.

I traded in my 2005 Hyundai Santa Fe SUV at the beginning of April and got a 2008 Toyota Prius Hybrid and it was the smartest thing I ever did in my life. During the racing season I put upwards of 4K miles on the car a month so at 60 MPG around town and 53+ MPG on the highway, that savings has really added up. Even with rolling over the balance on the SUV loan and the higher cost of the Hybrid, I'm paying less than I was before.

I saw the handwriting on the wall in March and knew I had to do something while the SUV still had some trade in value. A month after I traded it in, average resale and trade in values on SUVs and trucks dropped 2K and now if you go to get a Prius, depending on what model you want, you have upwards to a year wait to get one because of demand. Timing is everything.

I feel for you folks who have trucks to haul around trailers to/from races. I don't understand how you can cover that costs and still have anything left for racing and potential repairs. And with the fuel prices driving everything up, I would imagine sponsorship dollars in the coming year are going to be hurting as well.

Yea fuel cost hurt my team badly this season. I can't afford to run anywhere real far from home. I pretty much commit myself to kutztown on weds. I only live 25 mins from the track and only spending $30 to get there. I also took a hit in sponsorship, i had some trucking and construction companies sponsoring my car they are hurting from the fuel cost. They can't afford to give me alot of help this season. I am really surprised on car counts being as strong as they are. I give credit to all team who are running a few nights a week.
Doug Snyder

They said gas is supposed to be between $4.35 to $4.50 by 4th of July. It's horrible I truely don't see how teams are doing it most teams are spending atleast 100 a week on fuel. I am sure most teams are racing at the track closest to them.

I am going to take this opportunity to thank my sponsor, Caddick Construction Company of Ambler, PA. Mr. Caddick graciously provides us with diesel fuel for the dualie to tow to the track. We had the deal last year and yes, timing is everything, as it has helped immensely this year with expenses. I do not think that we would be able to run twice a week or do any of the shows farther from home if it were not for his support. Thank you!!

The fuel prices are what made me decide to buy a micro. I had run dirt super stocks for some time, but with the closest track being close to 70 miles away, the cost of fuel was stagaring. With a track that hosts micro sprints being 5 miles away, it made more sense to pick up a micro and run there.

Well I am a service adviser for a Nissan dealer. Sales have dropped this year and not as many clients do service work they just wait for something to break to fix it. no ones driving as much so oil change visits are taking longer than before so we cant keep an eye on the cars as much as we would like. I figure I am about 5 to 8 thousand behind in pay this year compared to the last two years. so no money to fix car and race. track is about 100 miles from me so no money to put gas in tow truck either. I would say the situation sucks for right now. We still take what little bit of money we can and keep forward process and hope to make it to the track a couple of times this year.

i know diesel is hurting a lot of people because when we tow our trailers are trucks are diesel and diesel is about 4.80 a gallon but when we get to va there are some places where it is 4.99

Our series is actually up in car count so far in 2008 from where we were in 2007 with our big events still to come. Hats off to the drivers making the hauls.

Yea it is definitly hurting us we used to go to greenwood every week ( 2 1/2 hours) Now we r staying closer like running ship (1 1/2 hours) Lindas (45 min) and Lanco ( 10 min)

it is an hour and 15 minutes for me to get from hacetstown nj to hamlin speedway in pa and about 2 hours to get to gvat. my dads pickup gmc 2500 6.0 liter gets around 8mpg towing 12 mpg non he just got an old 1993 audi with a v6 for daily driving to cut down on gas prices and it seams that alot of teh go cart classes at hamlin speedway have dropped and we lost some of the micros at hamlin 2. my dad aslo drives an 18 wheeler and that gets 4mpg haha he is an owner and opperator.

racing @ gvat sat. nite
3 hr trip each way
30.00 for food.
70.00 to race
200.00 for gas
2500.00 to fix wrecked race car
3000.00 to fix wrecked truck after hitting deer on way home.

picking up 3rd place and 180.00 prize money
priceless.

GOD i love racing

While the gas prices are hurting me just like everyone else I think it is actualy helping us at Borgers. Despite the $4.00 gas we are still getting large car counts and good spectator turnouts. I think the prices have kept many people closer to home. Just does not make sense to travel 50 to 100 miles from home when you can have the same enjoyment right in your own backyard.

I traded in my 2005 Hyundai Santa Fe SUV at the beginning of April and got a 2008 Toyota Prius Hybrid and it was the smartest thing I ever did in my life. During the racing season I put upwards of 4K miles on the car a month so at 60 MPG around town and 53+ MPG on the highway, that savings has really added up. Even with rolling over the balance on the SUV loan and the higher cost of the Hybrid, I'm paying less than I was before.

I saw the handwriting on the wall in March and knew I had to do something while the SUV still had some trade in value. A month after I traded it in, average resale and trade in values on SUVs and trucks dropped 2K and now if you go to get a Prius, depending on what model you want, you have upwards to a year wait to get one because of demand. Timing is everything.

I feel for you folks who have trucks to haul around trailers to/from races. I don't understand how you can cover that costs and still have anything left for racing and potential repairs. And with the fuel prices driving everything up, I would imagine sponsorship dollars in the coming year are going to be hurting as well.

I would be interested in hearing more about the Hybrid. Why would you get more MPG around town then on the highway? In my case with the business I need the SUV to pull the trailer so it would not be an option. To put an extra car on the road with insurance, license, inspection, and repairs also would not be feasible.

The down side is that $4.00 gas is not sustainable and prices should eventualy drop back to around $3.00. I would think under $3.00 days are gone but they will drop. The extra dollar per gallon could be a factor in offsetting the added expense of a new vehicle. Also the technology is still very new and untried so I would think there will be bumps in the road but still it is a good way of thinking for the future.

Bob in my case, with a Toyota Prius, I get better mileage around town because when it can, the Prius shuts off it's four cylinder gas engine and runs only on electric. This is especially true when starting and stopping like at traffic lights and intersections and whenever I can maintain a speed under about 30 MPH like when in traffic. Then when it needs to, it will start up the gas motor and the rotation of the crankshaft in the gas motor turns a generator that recharges the electric fuel cells the electric motor runs on. This is the "Hybrid Synergy Drive" you may have heard on Toyota Prius commercials.

It also has a feature where instead of using the brakes like on a downhill, you shift it into "B" which is regenerative braking. That causes a magnet to engage at the top of each crankshaft rotation that slows the car down without any friction on the brakes whatsoever and at the same time, the magnetism drives the recharging of the electric fuel cells. This leads to almost zero brake pad wear on the car.

The technology is not new at all. The Prius is celebrating it's tenth year and has sold 1,000,000 cars so far, with 600,000 of those being in the U.S. in the last three years alone.

There's a pretty good series of podcasts (recorded audio programs available on the internet) dedicated to the Prius available here: http://www.podcastalley.com/podcast_details.php?pod_id=11710&allEpisodes= They cover all aspects of the car from the perspective of someone who might be considering buying one.

I stopped traveling far on saturdays like I have the past 5 years or so. Racing locally nowadays....... $125 a trip was hurting when it was at 3.65 a gallon back in March/April, that would be $140 now for a trip to race on a Saturday Night at Trailways at4.09 a gal around where i live. :eek:

It’s pretty apparent to everyone there is no immediate relief coming our way to help out at the pumps. And now it’s time for us to fight in what we believe in. The Congressional elections of 2006 brought about many false hopes of lower energy prices promised by the majority of liberals elected to office. And yet the price has doubled since 06. I know the whole reason behind the high-energy costs: speculators driving up the costs, high global demand, and a weak U.S. dollar. But what I have a hard time wrapping my head around is these environmental head cases and how they can bring a whole country into a spiraling downfall. No one wants to hurt any animals/habitations in the process of drilling for oil. But enough is enough, were sitting on a projected 10 trillion dollar oil reserve in Alaska that could possibly make this country oil independent for a century till better technology is developed. We as constituents need to call our congress personal now and pressure them to drill. There are a few congressional personal that are trying to pass legislation through to help with this crisis. But the majority of our congress seems to hold a cold shoulder towards the subject. Put down the autograph cards for Clemens and Bonds, face the fact the Eagles didn’t win the super bowl and pass legislation to bring relief to our country. No one ever told America we can’t do something and I am not about to let it start. Our economy is based on low energy costs. Americans need to put pressure on congress to drill our own oil of the coast or in Alaska.

It's amazing that in this great country we have the ability to pass funding bills for a war that to date has cost over 529 billion dollars and countless thousands American lives but we can't pass two pieces of legislation that would certainly help with our energy problems here at home:

1. Drilling in the Alaskan Wildlife Refuge
2. Raising of CAFE minimum fuel mileage standards.

You can only blame environmentalists for # 1. You have to blame the oil men in the whitehouse and the Oil special interest groups for # 2.

cost me 30.00$ everyday just to go to work !!
but , im going to change my name to an amish name (jacob barna )
and break out the horse and buggy yo

I agree Gregg that they should be allowed to go after more oil. I disagree that we should let our government dictate fuel mileage to us.
I thought that this was the United States of America. It was founded to get government off our backs. It was founded on freedom of worship, and on the idea that too much government was no good. That was why we have 3 branches of government, to keep each other from too much power and abuse therof.
Don't forget, it is the courts, a part of government that has blocked the drilling in the first place.
Everyone wants the government to step in and fix it. What has our government fixed for us these last 40 years or more? Especially without spending 10 times more money doing it.
Our country wasn't built on government giveaways. Our pioneers di it on their own. They built America into the greatest country in the world, without all the taxation and big government.
Let the market dictate the fuel economy of cars. You want an economy car? they will make it if their is enough demand. You want a 500HP rocket. they'll build it if enough people want it. If I can get 30MPG out of a, say chevy and get 35 out of a Ford, well chevy better get their act together or I'll buy the ford. Supply and Demand.
Now, the hand writing is on the wall. We need to start to look at other forms of energy to heat our homes and power our transportation. I for one, don't want the government to dictate what's best. I would like to think my brain and wallet can figure it out. I don't need to have part of my check taken to give to someone to tell me how to live.
We need to stop crying about it and figure out how to get out of the grasp of oil.

did you know that Nissan owns part of that Toyota hybrid system and decided not to produce it. this year the did put a few altimas out in 3 states only but I think they are looking at diesel technology and Hydrogen for the future

Sounds like the dynamic braking on a train where the traction motors are reversed.

This is the problem. The current administration is pro oil and the oil companies control everything. It is hard to believe the entire economy of this country and the world is being brought to it's knees by the greed of a few but very powerful people.

*This is not a political statement*

I read an article today that said Bush is pressing Congress to lift the federal offshore drilling ban. That would allow individual states to decide if you could drill offshore (within 3 miles). The problem is that none of the shore states want to allow drilling because it would kill their billion dollar tourism industry. (One would think we could drill safely by now 3 miles out?)Of all the states metioned in the article, only VA and NC would be willing to allow drilling. NJ, CA, SC and ALL the gulf states said they would oppose it. So appearently it isn't the President as much as it is the Congress and state government.

Take that for what it's worth. The only news source I trust is Area Auto Racing News, right fellas?!!:D

Sounds like the dynamic braking on a train where the traction motors are reversed.

Yes, very similar to a monorail braking system.

You have to wonder why they can make amusement park rides like "Superman the ride" and things like high speed monorails that are propelled by nothing more than the polarity of magnets and yet we can't do that on cars. You would only need enough energy to get it up to speed and then the perpetual motion of a magnet reversing polarity at the top of the apex of the turn of a flywheel would be enough to power the next revolution of the flywheel, essentially powering the vehicle for nothing once it is running. Makes you think why nobody has tried that yet for automobiles.

No worries about building out infrastructure for E85 or hydrogen pumping stations. No worries about polluting. Just plug it in to charge the battery enough to get you started and it powers and recharges itself from that point on. Hmmmm.

Congress has actually passed a law that by 2020 the fleet average fuel economy for all vehicle manufacturers will be 35 MPG. This is a pretty drastic change in the auto industry as 2020 cars will be designed within the next couple of years. If you do a quick google search you can find out some more information on it.

The Prius did not come out in a 2008 model year until late for a reason. When vehicles are tested for fuel economy they are run through the FTP (Federal Test Procedure) Cycle to estimate city MPG (see attached) and the HWFET Cycle for highway driving. As you can see, there are many high peaks in valleys on this graph. Basically, what a hybrid system in its simplest form tries to do is eliminate the need for the Internal Combustion Engine to output the power needed for the peaks. The ICE runs at its peak fuel economy (in the auto world its called BSFC - Brake Specific Fuel Consumption) while a generator/battery/electric motor system handles the extra work. When less power is needed than what the engine is outputting, the battery charges, when more power is needed, the battery runs the electric motor, etc. There are many, many ways to do this, some very complicated, some fairly simple. The Prius uses a planetary gear set.

Anyway, when the fuel economy rating was done for the Prius, the vehicle started with a 100% battery state of charge (SOC). The vehicle ran on all electric battery power for nearly the first half of the cycle, and ended with almost no charge left in the battery. For 2008, a law was changed that forced new hybrids to begin and end with the same SOC. This, along with a newer, more demanding cycle, hurt the published fuel economy for a Prius. They got around it by not producing a different 2008 model year, and just making more 2007's with and called them 2008 models. This has changed also though, as the new 2008 window sticker now only states about 46 MPG.

Gregg, I'm actually a little suprised that you are getting such good fuel mileage from the Prius. Some people only get between 45-55, but obviously a lot depends on driving style.

There's a lot of good information to find on the web about hydbrid vehicles if you do some searching. The Chevy Tahoe Hybrid system is pretty cool. During design (before gas prices got so high), Chevy figured a lot of people would not drive hybrids simply because they generally had less power and lower acceleration (like the Prius). They decided to only slightly downgrade the engine and add a large electric motor, so the Tahoe Hybrid actually has more power than the traditional Tahoe and gets about 21 MPG compared to 15~16.

You can find fuel economy for all different vehicles and compare at fueleconomy.gov. If you check out the 2008 and 2007 model Prius you can see the vast difference in Fuel Economy, even though the vehicles are virtually the same.

http://www.dieselnet.com/standards/cycles/images/ftp75.gif

Jamie, I should preface my mileage with the fact that it is without running A/C. I lost about 6-8 MPG with the A/C running at a constant cabin temp of 76-78 degrees.

My Mom gets similar mileage give or take 5 MPG in her 2008 Prius. I tend to be more patient on my trips to/from work where I get 60+ MPG. I play games with it, trying to beat my MPG each day. You learn to "surf" hills and know when to keep your foot on the accelerator just enough that the computer takes your downhill trips and surfing time into consideration in the overall averages. I find that if you take your foot completely off the accelerator when going downhill, even though the computer says you are getting 100 MPG, (meaning running on all electric) it is not taking that time into consideration when it averages everything out. You have to keep your foot just barely on the accelerator. A lot of people won't be willing to play these games with their car and take the time to hypermile though. Most just want to get in and pounce on the gas and go on their way. Those people will certainly not see anything near the fuel economy that I get.

Much of it comes down to driving style. I made it out to Indiana in April on a single full tank of gas (11.9 gallon tank). One tank ! 683 miles on one tank and still had about 50 miles left I could have driven. That's 57.3 MPG over route 80 and then a bunch of country roads in Indiana. It can be done if you are willing to put some thought into the driving process.

The real ironic part is back in the 60's when we had the 300-400 horesepower muscle cars on the road the gas milage was not all that bad. The pollution from the fine tuned cars was not all that bad either. The pollution controls came on board and the mileage decreased. I would love to see a comparison today with a car of the 60's and today's cars where weight would also have to be taken into consideration and see how much difference there really is. There would be a difference but I would bet per centage wise the difference is not as great as one might expect.

I had a 68 Comet Cyclone GT Boss 302 that I did about everything that could be done for that car performance wise. We figured it to be in the neighborhood of 300 HP. That car got better gas milage then my 2000 Mountaineer does today.

There was great technology in the 60's but the technology was abandoned for the sake of producing vehicles that consumed excessive amounts of gas to the satisfaction of big oil. I also had a 1976 Olds Cutlass Supreme that I got 35 mpg. No one could figure out why. After I had the car for about two years I got a call from the dealer offering to trade the car even up for a brand new 1978 model. I refused. Why should I give up a car that was getting 15 mpg more then it should of? Later on I found out from a friend that worked at the dealership the car had an experimental carberator that was not supposed to be on the car when I purchased it. It was to be tested in this part of the country but was not supposed to be sold. You hear rumors of things like this but I know for fact, in my case anyway, these things do happen. The sad part is I only found out about this after the car was scrapped.

All good posts and good information guys. My question is, am I ever going to be able to haul my racecar to the track with the newer technology? I'd love to get 60 MPG in my race hauler, but it's hard to imagine having enough power at that point, and if they do acheive it are they going to be able to do it affordably or are we going to have to spend $150,000 for a new Tahoe? That's my only fear with the new government regulations. It's great to make the car companies accountable for helping the people out with gas mileage, but if we can't afford the cars or afford to have them worked on, it defeats it's purpose. Like what Bob is saying if I am reading it right, goverment regs didn't help, and in fact ruined cars that were working just fine in the 60's and 70's.

Jamie maybe you can answer--have you seen anything that has both power and economy for what we would be using it for?

My first car, a 1967 chevelle ss396 w/ the 375 HP motor only got 9 to a gallon IF, I could keep my foot out of the secondaries. Fat chance with a 17 year old kid. My wifes Grand Am with a 209 cid engine makes 175 HP and gets 23mpg around town. A similar early mid 70's 350 2 bbl motor made the same power and would get you about 14-15 in a similar car. I believe fuel injection, over-drive trannys, and aero-dynamics have made a spectacular leap in performance. I also forgot that little computer which moniters everything. It helps the motor to run more efficiently and pollute alot less. Just start my 73 vette up in the garage and you got a headache in 2 mins. We have made a signifcant advancement in our efficiencies. However, I guess some people wouldn't have a job, unless they created some controversy. Even though we are still making real advancements, they want to ram this stuff down our throats. Just ask anyone who has bought a diesel pick-up or big truck lately. the fuel milage sucks. It's off at least 15%. Sure, the exhaust out the pipe is cleaner. But how much more pollution is created finding that 15% of oil? you need to find it, get it out of the ground, transport it, refine it and transport it again. Also all the secondary effect , from more people traveling to work to produce the extra 15% Let alone the huge drain on all our wallets to appease some loud mouth people.
The whole system is really out of whack.

A quick story for ya! My father was a big Studebaker man. Where he bought his car, it was a Studebaker/Packard dealer. A fella bought a new Packard, drove it around town for a week or so, then made a trip from New Jersey down to Florida. When he got back from Florida, he immediately went to the dealer to see what was wrong with his car. It seems that with all that driving, he only had to fill his tank two or three times. Within a week, he had a knock on his front door and there stood a rep from Packard, dangling a set of keys for the biggest most luxurious model they made. Like an idiot, he took those keys. Oh, why did he get such good mileage? The carburetor. Where is Packard today? Thank "Big Oil" and the gov't, folks.

I have also noticed in the last year or so the milage on all my vehicles has dropped. SUV, lawn mower, quad, and even the weed wacker. In the Lehigh Valley area in about a 20 mile radius there are 3 different formulas of gas that are being sold. The farther north you go the better milage. People think all the gas is the same but it is not. It would not surprise me if additives are being put in the gas to decrease gas milage. A few years ago a friend of mine who is a chemist did some analysing on different brands of gas and found things in the blends that he could not tell what they were. Here is a person who went to college for almost 8 years, is a chemistry professor at a state university, and has testing equipment that can test "Parts Per Billion" and he could not tell what the substances were.

Bob, if you are just noticing worse mileage in recent years, I would guess it is because most stations now add up to 10% Ethanol to regular unleaded and Ethanol is much less efficient in terms of miles per gallon.

These are non ethanol blends. The ones that have the ethanol the milage is horrible and the engines run just as bad. I think the difference is oxygenated, formulated, and normal. Glen Borger has the exact information and it was eye opening.

I wish I could remember where I saw the article but they were talking something about an octane additive that is being put in the gas. It does not increase the octane but it makes the gas burn quicker and less efficiently.

the new regs have definitly killed diesels because we have an older powerstroke dually crew cab long box and we also have a 6.0 ext cab long box the 6.0 gets 14 where the dually gets almost 20 on the highway

WE all see local tracks struggling as grandstand and pits attendance continues to fall because people can't afford to get to the track anymore. Just as one little example, think about what it costs now to run a track in!

You both have good ideas, but I don't think there is any real hope. We soon need to buy fuel oil for the furnaces to get us through the winter, and I am looking at about $3k myself. Forty years ago my Renault got about 55 mpg, but it wouldn't tow a gokart. My wife's new Cobalt gets 34 mpg and my Hyundai gets about 36, but the mini van we kept to tow the camper only gets about 22 with it's six cylinder Chevy engine. Kelly Blue Book put its dealer trade in at between $4k and $4500, even with 170,000 miles, but the dealer only offered me $1500 for it. They know something we don't dare admit!

It seems like we are supposed to be, just as our kids in our schools, equal to the lowest common denominator. That means we should be just like the rest of the world, living on dirt floors and eating rice for every meal. The 'experts' in economy seem to be claiming that fuel prices will level off at about $4.50 a gallon, but you can bet we will never see them go lower. Face it, oil is not a renewable resource and there are a lot of better uses for it than private transportation, like fertilizer and food wrap!

One solution might be public transportation like the railroad system we had at the beginning of the last century, operating off nuclear generated electricity. As for racing, face it, we are watching the end of an era. There doesn't seem to be any answer, even if we were to all park our SUV's and minivans. What is really frightening is the future our children and grandchildren look forward to.

These were the good old days.

Walt

Gregg, good point, driving style has a big impact on fuel mileage. I was talking to a guy after work last week who was complaining about gas prices. He then got into his Explorer and drove out of the parking lot like he was practicing for a career in the NHRA and drove down I-95 doing 85 MPH. The aerodynamic forces on a car are a function of velocity squared. If you go twice as fast, you quadruple the amount of force on the car and the amount of power needed for the engine to output. Slowing down a little, especially with a trailer, which is probably the least aerodynamic shape possible, can save a lot of gas.

Bruce, the Chevy Tahoe Hybrid has 332 HP and a towing capacity of 6,000 lbs, and sells for just over $50,000. The new law just requires that the average for the fleet is 35 MPG. Manufacturers will still be able to produce trucks and SUVS for towing, as long as they have enough vehicles will a high enough fuel economy to bring the average to 35 MPG.

Research has been going on for a while on hybrid/electric/fuel cell powered cars because of the environmental impact. Only with the recent rise in gas prices have most consumers taken an interest because of the more immediate, personal impact. A small size 6 cylinder SUV, like a Ford Escape, produces just around 500 grams of carbon dioxide per mile of driving on average (This accounts for the CO2 produced refining the oil to gasoline and burning the gas in the engine). This means if you average 40 miles a day on your drive to and from work, you are dumping about 44 pounds of carbon dioxide into the air. That is quite a lot of CO2 if you consider the amount of people driving to and from work even in the Philadelphia area. Even if gas prices do fall, (which I don't know if they will, I hate politics), I think we'll be seeing a lot more hybrid vehicles, with electric vehicles in the near future.

Bruce, the Chevy Tahoe Hybrid has 332 HP and a towing capacity of 6,000 lbs, and sells for just over $50,000. The new law just requires that the average for the fleet is 35 MPG. Manufacturers will still be able to produce trucks and SUVS for towing, as long as they have enough vehicles will a high enough fuel economy to bring the average to 35 MPG.



And it gets just 1 more MPG then the regular on the highway. It does get an average of 5 more in the City, but I imagine towing is still the same as the electric motor will not be able to kick in nearly as much.

CNN.com had an interesting story about how many of the milage claims on these cars are deceiving. Story was sort of hard to follow but they are saying the measurements should be made in Gallons Per Mile and not the normal way of Miles Per Gallon.