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Tech Talk/Reflashing ECU's/Ways to properly tech/Rules Changes needed? 600 & 1000'S

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  • Tech Talk/Reflashing ECU's/Ways to properly tech/Rules Changes needed? 600 & 1000'S

    With the new ability to reprogram factory ECU's, and the ability to raise the rev-limiter (IN WHATEVER gears you want to raise it in) (i.e you can raise the limiter in 3rd or 4th gear but leave it stock in neutral 1st and second) i figured it was worth opening the discussion on this topic to see what peoples thoughts are. The majority are following the rules is my guess since this is such a new development, however, ECUS can be re-set to have a higher limiter in a certain gear or gears. (I.E. the tech guys could be overlooking if not checking the limiter in the gear that was actually RACED). For purposes of equality i feel either the tech people need to start checking the cars with a "tech in the appropriate gear" or allow rev-boxes again to keep tech simple, since some may have these newly adjusted boxes and may be using them and still be able to pass the "free-rev or 1st/2nd gear tech".
    In addition to saving engines, the rules are set up FIRSTLY to try and promote equality. What are everyones thoughts?? This is a very relevant and important topic. I hope something can be done before it becomes a FREE-FOR-ALL.
    Dealer for:

    Precise Racing Products
    Aero Wings
    Hoosier Tire/HTMA

  • #2
    I have been working on an "Black Box" for the Sidewinders. This would be zip tied into the car and plugged into the tach/power plug while on the starting grid before competing. It will data log the racing RPM of the engine during the race lap for lap. The box would be placed into random cars every night thus everyone would have a chance of having it put into their car at anytime. Maybe this is something the U6SA might want to do. Then no more free rev,s after the race just plug in and look at data.

    Comment


    • #3
      Rick, this is a valid concern. We, Guhl Motors, have not and will not be willing to perform this service for anyone. Members of the tech committee have had several preliminary meetings/discussions regarding this very matter. It is rather easy to tech rev limits in multiple gears with the GUTS system. This knowledge has been shared with those tech people that we have been able to get in contact with. There will be more information available at the upcoming U6SA meeting including a breif training seminar for all in attendance. If any tech personnel would like additional information regarding GUTS and its techability (is that a word?) we are encouraging them to call us at 717-618-4212.
      Angie Guhl
      Guhl Motors
      www.guhlmotors.com
      717-618-4212

      CHECK OUT OUR GROUNDBREAKING, MONEY SAVING RELEASE OF GUTS ONLINE!

      Comment


      • #4
        Check RPM in Gear

        Having thought about this problem for a couple weeks, one thought is to check rev limits by lifting the rear wheels and check RPM with the engine in the gear that's being raced. The tech person could verify the gear by first confirming what gears are on the car. ie. 13/54 in 3rd gear. That information would not be shared with competitors but a good tech person with a gear chart should be able to confirm what gear the car would be raced in. I intend to persent this issue to both Airport and Bridgeport Speedway officals because if we can't enforce the stock RPM limits then they need to allow everyone to use REV boxes. It really pisses me off when I lose a race at Bridgeport cause someone is running a REV box and no one knows how to check them. I agree with Rick, this issue has to fixed before it gets out of hand.

        Comment


        • #5
          Not questioning anyones integrity here, however the possibility clearly exists these days, and some boxes have been modified in this manner already for speedweek according to some pit-side chatter(maybe all gears limiters not just a few gears, not sure, doesn't really matter) I felt that the racing community needed to be aware (in a public form, not just chatter in the pits) of what the possibilities are so that the rules committees, tech people and tracks can deal with that possibilty in the correct manner to be fair to all teams/racers (whether that be adjusting tech or allowing anyone to run any box they want) I am personally opposed to rev boxes, but if this can't be tested in a full-proof manner they may be the way to go to make it a level playing field.
          Dealer for:

          Precise Racing Products
          Aero Wings
          Hoosier Tire/HTMA

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          • #6
            To get all thoughts in one place on this subject I am going to merge the two threads on this subject into one in the U6SA forum.

            Comment


            • #7
              I appreciate you bringing this subject up. Obviously it's a big concern for everyone involved, especially when the technology reaches many others' hands. Since you've been so involved with Bridgeport and Airport, perhaps you would like to volunteer as an additional representative for those tracks in the upcoming U6SA meeting. When's a good time for Don to reach you Monday?
              Angie Guhl
              Guhl Motors
              www.guhlmotors.com
              717-618-4212

              CHECK OUT OUR GROUNDBREAKING, MONEY SAVING RELEASE OF GUTS ONLINE!

              Comment


              • #8
                He can call any time 9am-9pm if I miss the call leave me a message and I will get back to ya. I would represent one track or the other if the racers are interested in me serving as their representative.
                Dealer for:

                Precise Racing Products
                Aero Wings
                Hoosier Tire/HTMA

                Comment


                • #9
                  Well, you can't really tech gears. One tooth isn't a dead giveaway, plus now add in fooling around with racing in 2nd, 4th etc...

                  Not safe to tech race gear with wheels off the ground. chain is loose and if the car falls off the jack...(OUCH)

                  Absolutely not feasible to have an interface box for all combos.

                  not to mention, there is a way to wire a redundant system where at the flip of a switch, its a whole different eprom.

                  I guess its racer beware. Maybe we should just all take an oath of morality concerning the rules...(do you trust everyone YOU race with?)
                  http://www.arronspahr.com/

                  Proud Member of the Yoo-Hoo fan club

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I've been waiting to see a topic like this for awhile, I really dont think the rev boxes are the problem. The problem is people taking the engine apart and building them. The engine that is in my car had a rev box attached to it for 30 races without ever being opened up or rebuilt (straight off the bike) and it is still running strong now. There are still people blowing up every other week, one two car team i know blew up 3 engines in 2 weeks. Stock engines should be the rule. No messing with the valves or rods or head or high compression head gasket. Everything should be left alone.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      For Hondas, What we've done in the 600 mods is a suprise ''on the spot'' ecu exchange...in other words at the drivers meeting before a race the series president tells everyone to bring their boxes to him immediately then they are assigned a number and thrown into a box...all documented (car # etc) ...once all boxes are in, everyone randomly grabs a box and puts it inot their car. Knowing they should be stock... it keeps the Honda guys honest (including myself)...The Suzuki's apparently have a ''zero'' device that plugs right into the ecu while on the car...just my input...Good luck racing everyone ! ''Geezer''

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                      • #12
                        hunter racing 7h i have been watching results at many tracks and have talked to many people and i have not seen many people dominate at any track do you feel someone is cheating at your track with your statement about become angry from losing a race from a car with illeagal parts i am just curious on how the rules have been enforced across the region

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                        • #13
                          What about everyone running a tell tale tach that the driver cannot reach to reset and that would be teched post race ..... nothing to recall after .... DQ.

                          Just my .02 ..... Jimmy

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            This was on the main board

                            NYMM Series to change rev limits

                            --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                            The NYMM Series has had an ongoing investigation for the past 3 months on the ability to alter the stock rev limit without detection. As of 8/15/8 the NYMM Series will be reverting back to an open rev box rule. We have had many in depth discussions with several motor builders and several members of the American Motorcycle Association (AMA Superbike) tech department. It is obvious that with the current advancements in computer technology, we are not capable of policing the stock rev limit. For many years the AMA tried to police this issue, just as the modified midget world is doing today. After years of trying, the AMA simply adopted a rule to Ďtag and sealí a stock box onto the riderís bike. Unfortunately with all the different ECU configurations in our methanol powered sport, this is not financially feasible.

                            We have found many types of altered boxes out there. We can purchase an ECU that can be remotely changed from stock to +1000 rpm. There are systems that have a switch that can be mounted under the dash and systems that put out a stock rev limit in neutral and in gear the rev limit is raised. This technology is not new to the motorcycle world, just to the modified midget world. There are companies here in the states that are trying to create a device to regulate these issues. It must be not only an accurate method, but also safe.

                            It is unfortunate that this has happened, but it was only a matter of time before the envelope was pushed. The rule was put in place not only to help the life of the motors, but to try and level the playing field. At this time we would be hurting the honest racer if we kept the rev limit stock.
                            Dealer for:

                            Precise Racing Products
                            Aero Wings
                            Hoosier Tire/HTMA

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Would mandating the removal of the speed sensor work to help elinminate this issue. I believe the ECU needs this sensor to know what gear you are in? Is this correct?

                              Just a thought!
                              Jan

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